Reddy
Posts: 1542
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:25 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
bnewkirk wrote:I just got back from a 300+ mile round trip from Centralia to Ellensburg in our 2018 SV. Much of the day the temperature was in the 90s. Did a quick charge in North Bend, but a 30 minute session only netted about 40%. Apparently the heat limited the charging. Due to traffic, we were getting pressed on time (not enough time to get another charge), so we drafted a semi into Ellensburg. Had to use AC (set at 72 with 3 fan bars) and the battery registered in the red for temp. After the car sitting in a sunny parking lot at 95 degrees for a couple hours, we went over to the QC and it took 80 minutes to bring it up from 10% to 80%, again in the red zone. This time the warning come on saying the battery is hot and we should drive conservatively. Set the cruise for 55, but as we began to go up the pass, the warning said power would be reduced and put us in 2018 turtle mode. I was in the slow lane with the semis doing 40 mph. Made it to North Bend with 20% and went to the QC and parked in the shade w/ water poured under the car for evaporation cooling. 30 minutes only netted 20%, so we went another session to get up to 60%. Then we set the cruise at 55, turned off the AC and opened the windows as we went downhill to minimize battery usage. Needless to say, it was a bit of an antsy situation. Bad traffic in Tacoma helped keep battery usage down and the turtle mode warning finally went off. South of Tacoma we drafted a semi home at 65 mph with 5% left in the battery. This was my first long trip with the car and I'm not favorably impressed. I will not take it beyond its normal charge range in hot weather again.

Thanks for the info. I will be doing trip to Yakima next week for DCFC opening there so will likely see similar temps. I am guessing you didn't have LEAF Spy? This will be first real challenge for heat issues for me. I did do Ellensburg right after their grand opening but temps only in mid 90's. Yakima is expected to be in the mid 100's so definitely a bit "warmer"

Next time you do trip, I would suggest Suncadia or something. Its a bit of a detour being 5 miles off I-90 but its a great walkabout along with a QC that does not have a timer and its generally cooler as well. Be warned, the wind there is "brisk"...
Dave: I'm looking forward to meeting you at the grand opening. For others, feel free to show up for the DCQC grand opening (free food) at Noon, Aug 2nd, 51 Firing Center Road, Yakima. From Ellensburg, drive the scenic highway 821 Yakima Canyon Rd to skip all the killer HILLS on I-82 and it drops you right at the intersection for the charging station. If you need/want a charge, plan on getting there at least an hour or two early.

bnewkirk's report is more confirmation that the 2018 Leaf without TMS is not in my future. I'm sticking with my 2011 until it's battery won't get me 10 mi RT to the grocery store. Sorry Nissan, you're not getting any more of my money until you have a TMS that keeps the battery at optimum usable temperatures and doesn't generate excessive degradation.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13329
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:14 am

Reddy wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
bnewkirk wrote:I just got back from a 300+ mile round trip from Centralia to Ellensburg in our 2018 SV. Much of the day the temperature was in the 90s. Did a quick charge in North Bend, but a 30 minute session only netted about 40%. Apparently the heat limited the charging. Due to traffic, we were getting pressed on time (not enough time to get another charge), so we drafted a semi into Ellensburg. Had to use AC (set at 72 with 3 fan bars) and the battery registered in the red for temp. After the car sitting in a sunny parking lot at 95 degrees for a couple hours, we went over to the QC and it took 80 minutes to bring it up from 10% to 80%, again in the red zone. This time the warning come on saying the battery is hot and we should drive conservatively. Set the cruise for 55, but as we began to go up the pass, the warning said power would be reduced and put us in 2018 turtle mode. I was in the slow lane with the semis doing 40 mph. Made it to North Bend with 20% and went to the QC and parked in the shade w/ water poured under the car for evaporation cooling. 30 minutes only netted 20%, so we went another session to get up to 60%. Then we set the cruise at 55, turned off the AC and opened the windows as we went downhill to minimize battery usage. Needless to say, it was a bit of an antsy situation. Bad traffic in Tacoma helped keep battery usage down and the turtle mode warning finally went off. South of Tacoma we drafted a semi home at 65 mph with 5% left in the battery. This was my first long trip with the car and I'm not favorably impressed. I will not take it beyond its normal charge range in hot weather again.

Thanks for the info. I will be doing trip to Yakima next week for DCFC opening there so will likely see similar temps. I am guessing you didn't have LEAF Spy? This will be first real challenge for heat issues for me. I did do Ellensburg right after their grand opening but temps only in mid 90's. Yakima is expected to be in the mid 100's so definitely a bit "warmer"

Next time you do trip, I would suggest Suncadia or something. Its a bit of a detour being 5 miles off I-90 but its a great walkabout along with a QC that does not have a timer and its generally cooler as well. Be warned, the wind there is "brisk"...
Dave: I'm looking forward to meeting you at the grand opening. For others, feel free to show up for the DCQC grand opening (free food) at Noon, Aug 2nd, 51 Firing Center Road, Yakima. From Ellensburg, drive the scenic highway 821 Yakima Canyon Rd to skip all the killer HILLS on I-82 and it drops you right at the intersection for the charging station. If you need/want a charge, plan on getting there at least an hour or two early.

bnewkirk's report is more confirmation that the 2018 Leaf without TMS is not in my future. I'm sticking with my 2011 until it's battery won't get me 10 mi RT to the grocery store. Sorry Nissan, you're not getting any more of my money until you have a TMS that keeps the battery at optimum usable temperatures and doesn't generate excessive degradation.


I will be there! Hopefully along with many others!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

arnis
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:44 pm

Yesterday, I did a longer commute on old 2014 24kWh Leaf. 250 miles, 400 km. With AC :)
Started with 100% charge at home and never recharged at destination. Vehicle was parked for hours at destination.
Took me exactly 6 DC sessions all exactly 10 minutes long. All sessions gave me ~7-7,5kWh of energy,
average charge speed was exactly 40kW (one charger was limited to 43kW, most gave me up to 49kW).
Exactly 60 minutes, therefore 40kWh. Had 3kWh to spare at arrival.
What I want to say that this is 2018 Leaf territory. Except I had to do 6x10 minute stops and 40kWh Leaf could do one
much longer break, if it did not overheat :lol:

This made me come here and mention overheating. It was 29*C in shade, 84F. With my tactics, I managed to keep battery temperature reasonable.
I started with 29,5*C and 70 minutes later it was 32*C (before first DC session). So almost no temperature increase
during 100%>>>20% discharge.
Anyway, on the way back, highest temperature was 42*C, 24*C outside.
By American standards, driving speed was not "fast enough" but it's not not like it would have been much faster with ICE.
So taking everything into account. Went 202km in 3h10min, 64km/h average trip speed. If I had taken my bimmer
and drive like I stole it, I would make that same trip 2h20min oneway. Coming back took 20 minutes more as I was discharged before departure.. So 3h30min. Would have taken 2h20min with ICE vehicle.
So I lost 50 minutes going there and 70 coming back. 2 hours. 9€ for DC sessions (plus 1€ charge taken at home).
ICE vehicle would steal 5,7 l/100km*4 * 1,4€/l=26€. So I saved 16€. Which is around 2 hours of labor (1h hour in some other countries here in EU). But I was actually resting. Soo... all in all, slightly better than a tie :)

Going back to RapidGate. Just offering cheap (actually free) advice for any engineer who F*'d up at Nissan :lol:
My proposal for Nissan (40kWh Leaf) that would be acceptable for most customers and should keep battery safe is here:
Charge limit 50kW below 35*C. Regen limit 50kW, Power limit 110kW, top speed 130km/h (even that is way too much for this vehicle* :( )
Charge rate limit 50kW at 38-40*C (less than 8TB), regen limit 30kW and power 80kW (60) , without kickdown 40kW (30), top speed 120km/h (110)
Charge rate limit 40kW at 43-45*C, reduce regen to 25kW and power limit 60kW (50), without kickdown 30kW, top speed 100km/h, display message
Charge rate limit 30kW at 48-50*C reduce regen to 15kW and power limit to 50kW (45), without kickdown 30kW (25), top speed 90km/h, display message
Charge rate limit 20kW at 50-52*C reduce regen to 10kW and power limit to 40kW (30), without kickdown 25kW, top speed 80km/h, turtle, display message.

Additional software modification for front fans: switch on if DC charging or speed below 10km/h to LOW/MID speed battery between 40-45*C, MAX speed at >48*C. These fans do have an effect, especially when DC charging and Climate Control is off and ambient considerably below battery (10-20 degrees delta). Keep fans active at LOW at AC charging if temp above 45*C.
*Additional limitation: In case of active Low Battery Warning use value in brackets "()".
In case of VLBW, engage turtle and limit power no more than 30kW, top speed ~90km/h.
They clearly made lots of mistakes (having 80kW available at 3% SOC on 24/30kWh Leaf is ridiculous, clearly idiots.


Having that much experience with LeafSpy monitoring and changing behaviour I'm convinced: DC charging heat generation is half of the problem. The other half happens on the move. And latter one can be changed to reduce charging speed problem without really reducing average trip speed.

*has been confirmed by many, for example (4:19 in the video clearly states what happens if driven at current top speed):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpUyspG2Mio&t=720s
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13329
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:13 pm

Arnis, I would gladly "race" you although it wouldn't be much of a race since I would be halfway home by the time you crossed the finish line
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13329
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:30 am

For anyone interested in the DCFC buildup in Central WA

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/08 ... nland.html
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hyperionmark
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:42 am

I-80 through Nebraska is getting 3 stations spaced about 120 miles apart through Electrify America. Not so big of deal for Leaf's due to overheating, but a huge deal for the Bolt's that paid for CCS.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13329
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:54 am

hyperionmark wrote:I-80 through Nebraska is getting 3 stations spaced about 120 miles apart through Electrify America. Not so big of deal for Leaf's due to overheating, but a huge deal for the Bolt's that paid for CCS.


Phase one electrifies main highway corridors and will be minimal in most areas and based on EV density. In WA, they are like 50 miles apart but there is also several other options.

Keep in mind; there are 5 phases so VW is no where near done with Nebraska.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hyperionmark
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:18 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
hyperionmark wrote:I-80 through Nebraska is getting 3 stations spaced about 120 miles apart through Electrify America. Not so big of deal for Leaf's due to overheating, but a huge deal for the Bolt's that paid for CCS.


Phase one electrifies main highway corridors and will be minimal in most areas and based on EV density. In WA, they are like 50 miles apart but there is also several other options.

Keep in mind; there are 5 phases so VW is no where near done with Nebraska.

If they are basing it on EV density I'm surprised they put any in Nebraska at all. Our local utility in Omaha is doing a $4,000 cash rebate once you register a new EV and $3,000 immediately off a new Leaf. They have had 10 people so far use it in the first 2 months, haha. It only gets worse as you head out into rural Nebraska.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13329
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 Leaf battery overheating

Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:28 am

hyperionmark wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
hyperionmark wrote:I-80 through Nebraska is getting 3 stations spaced about 120 miles apart through Electrify America. Not so big of deal for Leaf's due to overheating, but a huge deal for the Bolt's that paid for CCS.


Phase one electrifies main highway corridors and will be minimal in most areas and based on EV density. In WA, they are like 50 miles apart but there is also several other options.

Keep in mind; there are 5 phases so VW is no where near done with Nebraska.

If they are basing it on EV density I'm surprised they put any in Nebraska at all. Our local utility in Omaha is doing a $4,000 cash rebate once you register a new EV and $3,000 immediately off a new Leaf. They have had 10 people so far use it in the first 2 months, haha. It only gets worse as you head out into rural Nebraska.


Well, it is based on EV density and it sounds like Nebraska is simply more "in the way" or a politically correct "on the way" to EVland
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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