LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:10 pm

I finally did another reading yesterday, not at full charge.

SOH - 96.63

Hx - 104.12

AH - 111.55


I've done 13 (free) QCs. I have never driven the car far enough for range to be an issue. I don't think I've passed 1000 miles yet.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2911
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:54 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I finally did another reading yesterday, not at full charge.

SOH - 96.63

Hx - 104.12

AH - 111.55

3.5 Ahr loss in 5 months. Through a moderate summer and shoulders of spring and fall.
As Bjorn would say, shiiiiit
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:45 pm

On the one hand, this Summer was actually very Hot. OTOH, I kept the car cool in a cooled garage. So yes, very unimpressive for what I've tried to make a best case scenario.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Kieran973
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2018

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:10 pm

Thanks, Dave. That's helpful.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13328
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Leaf Number: 314199
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:57 am

FYI;
I would normally have waited until I had more data and blogged the results but I think that this should be put out there ASAP. Now realize that this is only 3 days worth on one car, mine. May not equate to all cars and there could be something else at work here, but...

I have been doing experiments with my car with rates of degradation which is in two parts.

Degradation at high temps and lower SOC done primarily with QC charging only during the hottest parts of the day. Resting SOC under 70%. (decent results)

Degradation at higher SOCs and cooler temps. Primarily done by doing full L2 charges at home. Batt temp ranges 57-63º F. Resting SOC 85%, 78% and 80%.

The latter has provided results that are not so good;

Day One SOH 95.91% (This is a .07 drop or more than ¾ of the drop for THE ENTIRE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER)

Day two; SOH 95.76% (.15% drop)

Day three; SOH 95.34% (.42 % drop)

I had planned to do the full charge/High SOC experiments for two weeks but have decided to cut that short. To put into perspective; I was driving between 25 to 41 miles per day.

Phase 2 of experiment was full charges and driving 60+ miles per day which should mean resting SOC under 70%.

Stay tuned.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

WetEV
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Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:09 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:there could be something else at work here


In older cars reported SOC can be changed by messing with driving and charging habits drastically in a fairly short time (~week) both positive and negative. The real SOC probably doesn't change, much if at all. -3% and +10%, and you are talking about changes of less than 1%.

How can you be sure you are not seeing just a reported change?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13328
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:12 am

WetEV wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:there could be something else at work here


In older cars reported SOC can be changed by messing with driving and charging habits drastically in a fairly short time (~week) both positive and negative. The real SOC probably doesn't change, much if at all. -3% and +10%, and you are talking about changes of less than 1%.

How can you be sure you are not seeing just a reported change?


FYI;
I would normally have waited until I had more data and blogged the results but I think that this should be put out there ASAP. Now realize that this is only 3 days worth on one car, mine. May not equate to all cars and there could be something else at work here, but...


The 2018 pack should not be equated in anyway with previous LEAF packs. I have tried every previously successful method of stat manipulation and nothing has worked, not even one time. Its either the same or goes down. Truth be told; about 67% of daily changes are covered by "no change" and ".01% change" when I was parking car with under 70% SOC.

During this time, heat never seemed to matter. So whether I baked it 125º and maintained at least 115º for over 15 hours straight, or not. There was never any consistent result that differentiated the pattern mentioned above. I also spent 6 days QCing where batt temps never went below 87º even at night. Nearly all the time was spent at over 100º and the pattern was still consistent.

But I also have to consider this is the first full charge in months so could be BMS recalibration playing catch up so I will be doing part 2 of experiment early (charge to full and drive 60+ miles to reduce parked SOC to below 70%) and revisiting part 1 again later in the year when its colder although I don't think temperature will matter that much since we are seeing temps ranging from mid 40's to low 60's...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:40 pm

The new BMS could be programmed to mask changes related to charging. It could be doing a SOH calculation only once a day or something like that. It's hard to say at this point, obviously.

People looking for a used 2018 Leaf in three years should have no trouble finding them. I can buy mine off lease essentially for free (to me) and I'm leaning away from doing so.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13328
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:20 am

LeftieBiker wrote:The new BMS could be programmed to mask changes related to charging. It could be doing a SOH calculation only once a day or something like that. It's hard to say at this point, obviously.

People looking for a used 2018 Leaf in three years should have no trouble finding them. I can buy mine off lease essentially for free (to me) and I'm leaning away from doing so.


Yeah, still too early to make and definitive conclusions. So far I am seeing

** very small drops of zero to .01% per day which averages out to roughly 2½% a year. Mileage seems to not be a factor.

** A group (3) of large drops and by large I mean more than say .2% in a day.

1) first drop 4/11/18 happened for some unknown reason but was in week when mileage was over 800 miles. Loss .68%

2) 2nd drop (over 2 days) happened likely due to open lot storage while on vacation july 6-17. SOC storage ~40%. Temps were much higher than normal during this period hitting mid 90's on some days. Loss 1.25%

3) over 3 days (see above)


So 2 events seem to have direct reasons (long term storage) and extended time at SOC.

All I can say is... glad I have 3 years to decide.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:07 pm

I had been keeping mine stored at lower SOC, and I've now started to keep that even lower - below 70% when possible.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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