armmynissanleaf
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:27 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Feb 2014

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat May 19, 2018 10:10 am

I heard one university (don't remember which one) they found a totally new approach to batteries that can increase the smartphone battery life for more than 100 times. I have written them and asked if this can be used in car batteries too, waiting for a reply.
Will update once I hear from them.
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LeftieBiker
Posts: 9061
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sun May 20, 2018 10:27 pm

Just limiting the SOC to between 10% and 90% would likely do that. Toyota Prius NiMH batteries last so well because of a strict 20%/80% limit imposed by the BMS.

Anyway, I finally did my first QC ever, tonight. It almost didn't happen yet again, because EVgo seems to really not want my card to work. Having failed to get them to register it over email despite their promise to do so, I called their help line from the station, and after 10 short minutes of talking to a friendly agent, I was ready to charge. Sadly, I had only allotted 20 minutes for the charge. Still, I plugged in for 13 minutes.

The battery temp at the beginning was about 45% (see my suggested scale in the first post here). The station, much to my surprise, quickly ramped up to 100 amps. Sort of odd, as I thought my car was limited to 50 amps, but...? After 13 minutes I had gone from about 47% SOC to 60%. The battery temp only went to about 55%. The ambient temp was low though - 62F. I'm going to do another LeafSpy reading this coming week.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13075
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon May 21, 2018 6:00 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Just limiting the SOC to between 10% and 90% would likely do that. Toyota Prius NiMH batteries last so well because of a strict 20%/80% limit imposed by the BMS.

Anyway, I finally did my first QC ever, tonight. It almost didn't happen yet again, because EVgo seems to really not want my card to work. Having failed to get them to register it over email despite their promise to do so, I called their help line from the station, and after 10 short minutes of talking to a friendly agent, I was ready to charge. Sadly, I had only allotted 20 minutes for the charge. Still, I plugged in for 13 minutes.

The battery temp at the beginning was about 45% (see my suggested scale in the first post here). The station, much to my surprise, quickly ramped up to 100 amps. Sort of odd, as I thought my car was limited to 50 amps, but...? After 13 minutes I had gone from about 47% SOC to 60%. The battery temp only went to about 55%. The ambient temp was low though - 62F. I'm going to do another LeafSpy reading this coming week.


I think you are confusing max charge rate of 50 KW for amperage. Sounds like the station can supply 40 KW to the car as long as starting SOC is below 60% and batteries are not too hot but the voltage of the pack will lower the power supplied.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
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SageBrush
Posts: 2594
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon May 21, 2018 6:38 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Just limiting the SOC to between 10% and 90% would likely do that. Toyota Prius NiMH batteries last so well because of a strict 20%/80% limit imposed by the BMS.

That certainly helps, but there is a lot more to the story. Toyota designed the battery capacity to allow for substantial degradation before the fuel economy would suffer while still retaining the original buffers. I think it is pretty typical for 10 year Prius batteries to have up to 50% usable capacity loss but still retain like new fuel economy. BEV do not have that engineering luxury since the battery is providing range rather than just flywheel function for the ICE.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon May 21, 2018 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
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Jerryr
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 8:18 am
Delivery Date: 14 May 2018
Leaf Number: 307113

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon May 21, 2018 6:41 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Thanks for posting that. Where (city/state) do you live?


I’m about 50 miles south of Tampa Florida.

When I bought my new 2015 Leaf I knew nothing. The Leaf sat on the dealer lot for about 10 months before I purchased it. I ran LeafSpy about a month after purchase and this is the result. It was already at SOH of 94%. so it lost 6% just sitting on dealer lot in that 10 months.

Image

It’s normally kept in the garage, low mileage and it still had 12 bars. Per LeafSpy it was about to loose 1 bar. This is LeafSpy last Tuesday, the day it was traded. SOH 85.52% Hx 75.04%

It’s plugged in after every trip and charge timer was set to start charge so it would be fully charged at 8am next morning.

Image

powersurge
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon May 21, 2018 10:46 am

Yeah, unfortunately, a Leaf is like a loaf of bread at the bakery.... You don't want one that has been laying around too long....

Dealers also are ignorant, and don't bother to charge any of the cars unless they do not run... I have looked at tons of Leafs (to buy) that when you turn them on have only 10%... So if they do not sell that car soon, they poor car will lay at 10% for months!!!

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9061
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon May 21, 2018 11:50 am

I think you are confusing max charge rate of 50 KW for amperage. Sounds like the station can supply 40 KW to the car as long as starting SOC is below 60% and batteries are not too hot but the voltage of the pack will lower the power supplied.


Yeah, that's it. I've never had QC before, and haven't followed the topics on it closely enough. Given my needs and the free charge up to 30 minutes with No Charge To Charge, that station will work well to just top me up once a week. My home L-1 can then be used to add any needed smaller amounts.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

TexasLeaf
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:22 am

As you may have seen from my thread, "Using speed to control battery temperature" I am trying to figure out if it's possible to control battery temperature so the TMS doesn't restrict current flow during charging. But there two things that I need to know to help me with my quest:

1. At what battery temperature does the TMS restrict CHAdeMO charging current flow?
2. What is the battery temperature rise CHAdeMO charging a cool battery at full amps from 20% to 80% charge?

I need more accurate reading than the Leaf Battery Temperature Gauge provides. I should be able to get the accuracy I need with LeafSpay but I don't have LeafSpy yet and it will probably a few weeks before I get LeafSpy. Can anyone that already has LeafSpy capture this information for us?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13075
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:03 am

TexasLeaf wrote:As you may have seen from my thread, "Using speed to control battery temperature" I am trying to figure out if it's possible to control battery temperature so the TMS doesn't restrict current flow during charging. But there two things that I need to know to help me with my quest:

1. At what battery temperature does the TMS restrict CHAdeMO charging current flow?
2. What is the battery temperature rise CHAdeMO charging a cool battery at full amps from 20% to 80% charge?

I need more accurate reading than the Leaf Battery Temperature Gauge provides. I should be able to get the accuracy I need with LeafSpay but I don't have LeafSpy yet and it will probably a few weeks before I get LeafSpy. Can anyone that already has LeafSpy capture this information for us?


1) Roughly the low 90's. The slowdown is tapered based on temps at start of the charge and SOC.

2) This varies a lot but expect temps to be anywhere from mid 100's to the low 120's. In anything temperature, ambient plays a huge part.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TexasLeaf
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:24 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TexasLeaf wrote: 1. At what battery temperature does the TMS restrict CHAdeMO charging current flow?
2. What is the battery temperature rise CHAdeMO charging a cool battery at full amps from 20% to 80% charge?


1) Roughly the low 90's. The slowdown is tapered based on temps at start of the charge and SOC.
2) This varies a lot but expect temps to be anywhere from mid 100's to the low 120's. In anything temperature, ambient plays a huge part.


I'm sorry but I am very skeptical of your information. I didn't think the current restriction starts until the battery temperature hit 10 bars and 10 bars doesn't even start until around 120 degrees (http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery). Your response to question 2 is meaningless because you have not identified the temperature "rise".

If you have some real data to shall I would be happy to see. If all you have is conjecture and speculation please don't bother.

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