DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 841
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:30 am

I wonder if you could build in a small algorithm which undershoots efficiency to start, then slowly ramps it up over a few years (and maybe shrinking a reserve). This would give you the feeling of a stable usable range, and manage the battery decline for say 3 years, which would give people a good feeling. Then a gentle decline would be considered acceptable as the car would no longer be "new". It would also manage through most lease agreements.

I follow some of the Tesla boards, and the amount of screaming after the software change has been deafening (and as they are well healed lawsuits are following). Also, there are a growing number of Bolt drivers reporting 10% range drops and more after 2-3 years of driving. While I would put both at rates less than what most (now not all) leaf drivers experience, its not 0. Maybe 3% a year across it all. Our 13 leaf, which was at the center of the curve, lost about 20% after 6 years, 11 of 12 bars, but we only put on 6K miles a year (traded it in at 37K miles).
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

danrjones
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:42 am

My 2018 has in theory lost almost 6% but the first 3% was before I bought it, as it sat around for a full year on a hot dealer lot.

But the second part of that is how that loss curve changes over time - will it be linear? Will it level off over time?

Assuming the loss is real, I could see 8% by the end of my first year (two years including the time on the lot)
But the next two years after that could be 4%.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 841
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:03 am

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 56226.html

Looks like the eGolf has similar GOM dynamics to the Leaf. Maybe a bit worse.

I still advocate for a kWh remaining on the dash. Its like gallons remaining in the tank. Based on weather, speed, etc. you can you use your super computer on your shoulder to determine remaining range.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12777
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:06 pm

I still advocate for a kWh remaining on the dash. Its like gallons remaining in the tank. Based on weather, speed, etc. you can you use your super computer on your shoulder to determine remaining range.
How would that be different from a SOC display? If I see kwh remaining, I will convert to fractions of full/SOC% in my (formerly) supercomputer.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:25 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:30 am
I follow some of the Tesla boards, and the amount of screaming after the software change has been deafening
Err .... what are you talking about ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14030
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:17 am

danrjones wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:42 am
My 2018 has in theory lost almost 6% but the first 3% was before I bought it, as it sat around for a full year on a hot dealer lot.

But the second part of that is how that loss curve changes over time - will it be linear? Will it level off over time?

Assuming the loss is real, I could see 8% by the end of my first year (two years including the time on the lot)
But the next two years after that could be 4%.
If it were linear in time or distance, I would be over 10% by now. As reported, I get large adjustments to the BMS every 90 days which have all gone down except the last one which went up. If the next one goes down, that essentially means 6 months of negated changes with a net result near zero.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danrjones
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:49 am

Latest Data

Date SOH AMPHr Hx
5/03/2019 97.63 112.70 97.50
5/06/2019 97.62 112.69 97.94
5/07/2019 97.61 112.68 98.03
5/10/2019 97.60 112.67 98.39
5/13/2019 97.59 112.66 98.55
5/15/2019 97.58 112.65 98.73
5/19/2019 97.57 112.63 98.84
5/27/2019 97.55 112.61 99.27
6/01/2019 97.53 112.59 99.61
6/04/2019 97.50 112.55 100.12
6/11/2019 97.44 112.48 101.03
6/12/2019 97.43 112.47 101.25
6/13/2019 97.42 112.46 101.25
6/14/2019 96.49 111.39 101.58
6/15/2019 96.28 111.15 101.58
6/16/2019 95.64 110.41 101.67
6/17/2019 95.42 110.15 101.82
6/19/2019 95.40 110.13 102.15
6/20/2019 95.38 110.11 102.25
7/15/2019 95.19 109.89 103.22
7/24/2019 95.10 109.78 104.04
8/11/2019 94.90 109.55 104.95
8/30/2019 94.73 109.36 106.05
9/05/2019 94.68 109.30 106.27
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

danrjones
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:26 am

Where are the temp sensors on the battery?

Last night I went to bed the temps were 97.7 max and 96.2 min, not a big spread.

This am the temps were 87.4 and 80.6. Pretty big spread?
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14030
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:34 am

danrjones wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:26 am
Where are the temp sensors on the battery?

Last night I went to bed the temps were 97.7 max and 96.2 min, not a big spread.

This am the temps were 87.4 and 80.6. Pretty big spread?
Not a big spread at all. Jump in the car and drive it. The spread grows considerably.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danrjones
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:00 am

I have, usually (for me) its only a couple degrees apart. Anyway, still makes me wonder what is what for the sensors.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

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