LeftieBiker
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:27 pm

GIDs are best for available range, although GIDs at full charge can also be used for battery health. SOH is usually used because it's the same at different charge levels. Hx seems to have became worthless with the 40KWH pack.

I should do a reading today, although at this point why not wait for October...?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kovadam
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:21 am

Hi!

My degradation looks really bad. I loose 0.01-0.02% every day whether I use the car or not, or whether I charge the car or not, or I leave the car with 100% SOC or only 80% of SOC, doesn't matter. Every day I check, I loose capacity according to Leaf Spy. I have the car for 9 days (~650km on ODO), and I already lost 0.12%. If this is going so, I will loose 3-5% every year, which is too bad. And the battery was never above 33°C, mostly between 20-27°C which should be optimal. The initial SOH when I got the car was also quite low 99.36%, now I'm on 99.24% after 9 days! That's really bad I think. Will it ever stop, or will it continue to drop like this? Now Hx went up above 100%, but as I read here on the forum nobody knows what really Hx means (I also read the Leaf spy help about Hx), or if it even means anything in 2018 Leaf. Now charged to 100% SOC (according to car) leaf Spy reports slight above 97% SOC, and 38.4kWh total capacity.

Some questions regarding Leaf Spy. What is the max number of GIDs available for 2018 Leaf (if SOH=100%)? Is it sure that Leaf Spy capacity and health readings (like SOH) are still correct for 2018 Leaf?

Regards

kovadam

cwerdna
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:08 am

kovadam: I would not obsess over what you see. Nothing you write suggests "My degradation looks really bad". Big deal about 0.12%.

As for "if this is going so, I will loose 3-5% every year, which is too bad." 5% per year would be bad but 3%? Tough luck. For comparison, viewtopic.php?p=537383#p537383 are stats on my used 24 kWh Leaf that's nearing 5.5 years old. If the rate is 5% capacity loss per year, then assuming Nissan didn't muck w/the capacity bar thresholds, you should be eligible for a new battery within the 8 year/100K capacity warranty.

Bad capacity loss is when someone in Phoenix (car Blue494) lost 4 capacity bars when the Leaf had been out ~21 months: https://web.archive.org/web/20160113132 ... p?p=228326. They were somewhere past 30% capacity loss.

Please read what Turbo3 wrote re: SOH at viewtopic.php?p=516444#p516444. Turbo3 is the author of Leaf Spy. SOH does NOT necessarily mean capacity. We have no idea what the number really means and what its precision is or whether any preconditions need to be met for it to be "accurate". Nissan knows.

I also quoted Turbo3 at viewtopic.php?p=447431#p447431. viewtopic.php?p=497564#p497564 has some historical posts about the origins of what is rendered as SOH and Hx (formerly Hlth).

About all we can use these numbers for are to compare notes with others and to see if we can get a rough idea when each capacity bar goes away.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kovadam
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:20 am

Thanks for the answer and the background research with links! Was great to read about these values. So basically we don't know what these numbers represent, but they have something to do with degradation :).
Now I could fill up the car with 38.4kWh, so I think this is somewhere near the maximum usable capacity. So for degradation I assume I should calculate from this, making 38.4kWh as the max (100%) capacity of my Leaf's pack.
Would be great to know the max capacity Nissan planned for the battery pack. I read somebody calculated 39.46kWh as theoretical max capacity according the cell voltage, data and layout, but I don't think Nissan would allow to use the whole 100% capacity.

cwerdna
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:13 am

kovadam wrote:Thanks for the answer and the background research with links! Was great to read about these values. So basically we don't know what these numbers represent, but they have something to do with degradation :).

AHr, SOH and Hx tend to get worse over time if you look at the long-term trend, but they will fluctuate a bunch. I can't speak to the '18, but on the '13 and I think to '16, you can manipulate the values up and down, to some degree.
kovadam wrote:Now I could fill up the car with 38.4kWh, so I think this is somewhere near the maximum usable capacity. So for degradation I assume I should calculate from this, making 38.4kWh as the max (100%) capacity of my Leaf's pack.
Would be great to know the max capacity Nissan planned for the battery pack. I read somebody calculated 39.46kWh as theoretical max capacity according the cell voltage, data and layout, but I don't think Nissan would allow to use the whole 100% capacity.

AFAIK, Nissan doesn't let the user access all of the pack even on 40 kWh cars. For 24 kWh cars, there was definitely some not usable at the top and bottom.

As for 38.4 kWh capacity or whatever, if you're getting that from Leaf Spy, the kWh values for remaining charge are calculated by gids * 77.5 watt-hours/gid (default value). You can change that and make the kWh value go up and down.

See what Turbo3 has to say about that at viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285&hilit=gid+energy&start=1770 (having trouble pointing directly to the post due to some bugs with this site). Also, see my comments and speculation at viewtopic.php?p=481577#p481577.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

powersurge
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:43 am

I really think that you folks with the 2018 cars should stop even THINKING about battery "degradation". Don't start out with your brand new car and already having dreams of when you will get a "free" battery... You wont.... I have a 2015 with 50K miles and still have 95% SOH, so do not obsess about a brand new car..

If you got the Leafspy app and got your first numbers (in the area of 99% SOH), great. Just for your own knowledge over time, take a leafspy reading every 3-6 months and write it in a chart for the future (if you bought the car). If you are leasing the car, forget about leafspy period because you will give back the car so soon, you will never witness degradation, or need to address it.

LeftieBiker
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:15 pm

And I think that you should stop foisting your "Drive it and forget it" mentality on others with such vehemence. No one uses LeafSpy often because someone told them they have to do it. You have a point to some extent, but you are so far on the other side of the issue that ignoring you is the safest approach for new Leaf drivers.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13327
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:15 am

kovadam wrote:Hi!

My degradation looks really bad. I loose 0.01-0.02% every day whether I use the car or not, or whether I charge the car or not, or I leave the car with 100% SOC or only 80% of SOC, doesn't matter. Every day I check, I loose capacity according to Leaf Spy. I have the car for 9 days (~650km on ODO), and I already lost 0.12%. If this is going so, I will loose 3-5% every year, which is too bad. And the battery was never above 33°C, mostly between 20-27°C which should be optimal. The initial SOH when I got the car was also quite low 99.36%, now I'm on 99.24% after 9 days! That's really bad I think. Will it ever stop, or will it continue to drop like this? Now Hx went up above 100%, but as I read here on the forum nobody knows what really Hx means (I also read the Leaf spy help about Hx), or if it even means anything in 2018 Leaf. Now charged to 100% SOC (according to car) leaf Spy reports slight above 97% SOC, and 38.4kWh total capacity.

Some questions regarding Leaf Spy. What is the max number of GIDs available for 2018 Leaf (if SOH=100%)? Is it sure that Leaf Spy capacity and health readings (like SOH) are still correct for 2018 Leaf?

Regards

kovadam



What is your "sitting" SOC averaging? As always, the LEAF thrives on being used. So the calendar rate of loss may not change but mileage wise, there seems to be "no upper limit"

Jennifer in Phoenix is just under 95% in hers and she is over 30,000 miles driving in possibly the worst conditions imaginable
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kieran973
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:14 am

So the takeaway I get from this thread so far is that a lot of people are seeing roughly 5% loss in SOH after roughly six months of ownership.

But are you also seeing losses in range?

And has anyone here had their 2018 for a full year or close to it? (I forget what month the 18 was released). If so, what SOH losses are you seeing? Losses in range?

Thanks.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13327
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:19 am

Kieran973 wrote:So the takeaway I get from this thread so far is that a lot of people are seeing roughly 5% loss in SOH after roughly six months of ownership.

But are you also seeing losses in range?

And has anyone here had their 2018 for a full year or close to it? (I forget what month the 18 was released). If so, what SOH losses are you seeing? Losses in range?

Thanks.


I have just under 3½ loss in 8 months and 12,000 miles but the rate has slowed considerably over the last 2 months. Dk if weather had anything to do with it since half of that two months was still quite "summer like."

As far as noticing range loss; This is what I term as the "Tesla factor." when you have more range than you need 99% of the time, its very difficult to quantify a small change. Ask me in a year.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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