I'v replaced old 2012 Leaf cells with 2013 cells...

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changster1

New member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
3
Hi all,
I've just completed a battery cell swap on my 2012 52000 mile gen 1 Leaf after the original battery was down to 74% SOH so I brought a 2013 battery of the later chemistry and just swapped the battery modules leaving the BMS and original bus bars and wiring in the original battery case.

So far so good! Its all working ok and I've been on a 40 odd mile run and the SOH, Ahr and Hx have slightly improved already.

I hope to keep updated with progress on this forum :D

I've put a few pics on facebook under scorpioelectronics/uk
 
The BMS is learning the new capacity of the battery pack.
I've done a few long journeys in 5 days and the Ahr has gone from 48ahr to 54ahr.
The SOH has gone from 73% to 83% and HX has gone from 65% to 76%.
And the Gids have increased from an average of 205 to 233.
So far so good!
I've put some leafspy screen shots of the various screens on the scorpioelectronicsuk Facebook page.
 
I've been looking for someone who has done this for a while.

I'm looking to do the same as have newer gen2 cells and going to throw into a n older leaf with gen1 cells in.

Question is is it a case of swap out and plug and play?

No programming of anything and was there an order for disconnection inside the pack as was told there is.

Thanks

C
 
^^^
I would read the posts by Cor at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21997.

Remember that you are dealing with deadly high voltages and a pack that weighs over 600 lbs attached to the bottom of the car.
 
Hi Thanks for the reply,

Getting the pack from under the car on my drive would be a task which im thinking about how todo without shelling out more cash .

Im happy to work on the leaf and have all the high voltage equipment to do safely and aware of the dangers too so thats covered.


Thanks for the link too i will have a good read of this.

Im also searching all over for as much info on this module swap like:


1. Any order to follow inside the pack to ensure no issues (like doe the battery controller need removing first and connecting last etc)
2. Is there any programming of the BMS etc once you swap the modules or is it just a case of the BMS relearns as car cycles. (This thread indicates its relearns yes)


Thanks again


C
 
See page 2 of this thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=26760&start=10
also there might be some useful information here https://web.archive.org/web/20140403153453/http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3896
 
Great thank you.

Just reading and digesting the first thread then I will look at these. Some great info thanks folks

C
 
Every time I read one of these threads about cell swaps I sounds like whoever is doing the swap is trying to back engineer the battery pack. But every thread I've seen on battery replacements under warranty indicates that the new pack comes completely assembled and just bolts and plugs right in. Replacing battery packs is a standard procedure so there must be a service manual from Nissan that tells you exactly how to install the new battery pack.

The service manual for Leaf battery pack replacement should be easy enough to get ahold of and it's hard for me to believe that no one on this forum has a copy. So what does the service manual for Leaf battery pack replacement say??? Does it say you have to do any reprogramming when you install a replacement battery?

Frankly I'm shocked (no pun intended) that anyone is even trying to replace a battery pack or trying to do any kind of serious repair work on a Leaf without a service manual. So many things are so much harder and so many things can go wrong if you don't follow the service manual.

I usually keep my cars a very long time. Once the cars go out of warranty I usually try to do the repair work myself. One of the highest priorities when my cars go out of warranty is to get my hands on a factory service manual.

I've already located a website where I can by a service manual for my 2018 Leaf; https://www.factoryrepairmanuals.com/2018-nissan-leaf-factory-service-manual-cd-rom-original-shop-repair/. It's going to be a long time, I hope, before I have to worry about doing any of mechanical repairs on my Leaf but I'm still thinking about buying the service manual so that I can find out how things are really put together. There may be a supplement that explains how to do things like replace the battery pack but at least the service manual should tell you how to get your hands on the supplement.
 
TexasLeaf said:
I've already located a website where I can by a service manual for my 2018 Leaf; https://www.factoryrepairmanuals.com/2018-nissan-leaf-factory-service-manual-cd-rom-original-shop-repair/.
The official place to buy the service manual is https://www.nissan-techinfo.com/.
 
TexasLeaf said:
Every time I read one of these threads about cell swaps I sounds like whoever is doing the swap is trying to back engineer the battery pack. But every thread I've seen on battery replacements under warranty indicates that the new pack comes completely assembled and just bolts and plugs right in. Replacing battery packs is a standard procedure so there must be a service manual from Nissan that tells you exactly how to install the new battery pack.
TexasLeaf said:
The service manual for Leaf battery pack replacement should be easy enough to get ahold of and it's hard for me to believe that no one on this forum has a copy. So what does the service manual for Leaf battery pack replacement say??? Does it say you have to do any reprogramming when you install a replacement battery?
The pack (which has a BMS module inside) must be paired to the car.

See
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=497035#p497035
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=464858#p464858

If it's not paired, the car won't got faster than 25 mph.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21997&p=500684&hilit=mph#p500684
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21997&p=464829&hilit=mph#p464829

And, an entire pack new from Nissan is expensive ($7K+). There's also the issue of the kit needed for newer packs to be used on '11 and '12 Leafs: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168&p=374490. And, you can get a pack with the battery warmer or not. Most '11s don't have the warmer whereas all '12 thru '17 packs should have the warmer. And, '13 to '17 packs have 1 less temperature sensor.

There are also some differences between versions of packs.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21997&p=488712&hilit=modules#p488712
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21997&p=500684&hilit=modules#p500684
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21997&p=500698&hilit=modules#p500698

Please go thru that thread and read the posts by Cor.

If the dealer is going to to a pack swap that's either customer paid or warranty, they will NEVER do the above. They will simply order the correct pack, an adapter kit (if needed), swap packs and pair the new one. There's no reason for them to go thru all the steps that Cor is going thru.

Also see posts by a well-known dealer tech (Aaron) on packs and pack differences. Example: https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1926260927405335/?comment_id=1926268064071288&reply_comment_id=1926303147401113&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D.
100% no not interchangeable. The 13-18 Packs have a additional H/V port at the front that will not let the vehicle engage the system main relaysnunless the port is plugged in. The only way to make this work is swap internals but use the older cars bus bars and H/V wiring.
He elaborates further. Search for posts on FB by him in the various Leaf groups.

Often, when someone has a pack that's too degraded and they want another, they have an '11 or '12 (see above differences) and want one that's newer because it has had less calendar loss and likely has a much better chemistry since all the ones built before 4/2013 seem to have a crap chemistry. Ideally, you'd want a model year '15 "lizard" packs from a crashed Leaf that was in a mild climate. 2nd choice would be a 4/2013+ built thru model year '14 pack. But then there are the physical compat problems in both cases.

If someone had a '13 that was past 5 year/60K capacity warranty and down too many bars, then a pack from a '13 thru '15 in a mild climate (so it has less loss) should be suitable. Probably most or all '13s have just recently passed their 5 year/60K capacity warranty. (They were mostly built starting 1/2013 and I think built thru ~12/2013.)
 
After reading this thread and a ton of other great threads by cor, mux, the raglan bikes guy, and other youtubers, I have the following plan in my head to retrofit a 6 bar battery on a 2011 leaf with 12kwh and Hx=25%.

-Buy 48 used gen2 leaf battery modules on ebay. (~$3000 - $3500) I estimate that these modules have between 50Ah-55Ah, so 48 of them holds about 18kwh.
-Remove the 6 bar 2011 battery, pop open the case, switch out the 48 gen1 modules for the gen2, while keeping the original wiring, fasteners, and BMS.
-Remove the back seats of the leaf and place the 48 modules in a series on top of where the seats used to be. Then connect these in parallel to the main traction battery through the battery service plug panel by drilling a hole in the battery case, sealing it, and connecting to correct points in the wiring upstream of the precharge circuit.

By removing the back seats and placing the battery there, the increase in weight is 8lbs x 48 modules = 384lbs minus the weight of the back seats, which feels like about 60 lbs, for a net increase of 324 lbs. Furthermore, by placing the modules in a central position instead of the trunk, the rear suspension carries less weight, and does not need to be modified.
By simply wiring the extra modules in parallel upstream of the precharge circuit, there is no need to design an arduino controller connected to the VCM to connect/disconnect the extra modules. It simply discharges and charges along with the main battery. The BMS will not know the difference if the voltage discharge characteristics are unchanged.
I'm thinking that if everything goes as planned, this will result in an 18kwh + 12kwh = 30khw battery for about $3000-$4000
If the old gen1 batteries can't be reused, they can be put back on ebay for solar storage to partially offset the cost of the gen2 modules.

This seems like a great alternative to a $7500 dealer battery replacement and requires only basic engineering skill. My question for you is, am I missing something that could destroy my leaf or kill me in a fire?

I don't want to end up like this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cIo95W-vfE

I also don't want to have an obscure electronic component burn out like this brave modder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zivzvh9Bx0
 
Just make sure the car is never parked in the sun. It gets a lot hotter inside the car than it does in a box underneath it.
 
cwerdna said:
^^^
Also see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=542902#p542902.
Am I correct in saying that a pack swap (not the modules) will always require a pairing ?
Has anyone heard of a dealer agreeing to just perform the pairing ?
Has anyone heard of the pairing being performed outside of the dealership ?

Addendum:
These folks in NZ
http://evsenhanced.com/products/hv-battery-pairing-tool/
say they have a pairing solution but no details or price are provided.
 
I have another question about extender batteries. What gauge of wire is used for connecting 364 (nominal) volts of battery in parallel? The leaf is 90kw (120hp), so the amperage is 90,000 watts / 364 volts = 247.25 amps. The gauge of wire required to handle 247 volts is a wire that's 0.32 inches in diameter (0 AWG) according to this chart.

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

That can't be right. That's huge. I don't even think the main high voltage cable is that thick. What am I missing here?
 
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