The Nissan Leaf battery pack apparently weighs around 440 pounds! and that's one of the reasons Nissan built an electric vehicle platform from the ground up instead of using an existing vehicle like the Nissan Versa. That allowed them to be able to save weight in other areas
SO HEAVY
- Thread starter klaus
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I guess that answers my question about whether or not you could have a second battery pack charging at home or along your route...
In Israel there is a subscription service called 'Better Place' where you can pull into the station and swap out batteries for charged up fresh ones. Better Place is pushing for electric car manufacturers to build there cars to accept the standardized format of battery pack so that this service will work.
Apparently Nissan may have agreed to do it in Israel, but as for North America, Nissan says the primary chargin will be done at home and who knows how long it will be before there is a battery swapping infrastructure that can support a service like Better Place.
In Israel there is a subscription service called 'Better Place' where you can pull into the station and swap out batteries for charged up fresh ones. Better Place is pushing for electric car manufacturers to build there cars to accept the standardized format of battery pack so that this service will work.
Apparently Nissan may have agreed to do it in Israel, but as for North America, Nissan says the primary chargin will be done at home and who knows how long it will be before there is a battery swapping infrastructure that can support a service like Better Place.
I posted something similar to this on another thread on this forum, but I can't remember where....
I don't think the swapping battery thing will take off... I mean, if I bought a brand new car and then I stop at one of these stations, I give them my new battery pack in exchange for some old thing that has been charged and re-charged countless times... no thanks!
I don't think the swapping battery thing will take off... I mean, if I bought a brand new car and then I stop at one of these stations, I give them my new battery pack in exchange for some old thing that has been charged and re-charged countless times... no thanks!
stupid said:
There is one time I would consider this... if I didn't pay for the battery pack. Maybe when you buy the Nissan Leaf, you can buy a battery pack with it, or you can choose to sign up with these battery stations. They would have a monthly fee (similar to leasing the battery pack from Nissan) and you would always have a good battery pack and it would always be charged??
I have a bbq propane tank like this... sort of.
I paid less for it initially, and anytime I need a refill, I can either go to a gas station and refill it, or I can go exchange it for a full one from the place I bought it. The exchange is only $1 or $2 more than filling it at a station, and it ensures I get a tank with a safety checked valve and a fresh coat of paint, and no food chunks haha!
I paid less for it initially, and anytime I need a refill, I can either go to a gas station and refill it, or I can go exchange it for a full one from the place I bought it. The exchange is only $1 or $2 more than filling it at a station, and it ensures I get a tank with a safety checked valve and a fresh coat of paint, and no food chunks haha!
Yes, batteries are heavy. But do you realize the amount of R&D (research and development) companies are putting into this right now? There's probably billions of dollars being spent. Ha, okay maybe not right now with the current economy, but there was, and there will be again.
It's only a matter of time before there is new technology, a lighter way to store more electricity, and charge faster. Once there is, it's off to the races for the Leaf. In order to capitalize, they would have to make the abttery pack removeable so that a new tech pack can be inserted once someone invents it.
It's only a matter of time before there is new technology, a lighter way to store more electricity, and charge faster. Once there is, it's off to the races for the Leaf. In order to capitalize, they would have to make the abttery pack removeable so that a new tech pack can be inserted once someone invents it.
Battery swapping is a non-starter for many reasons. The biggest one is that it fundamentally requires an extreme level of standardization. But vehicles don't standardize well. Different shaped vehicles need different layouts. FWD needs a different weight distribution than RWD, and the battery is the heaviest part of your vehicle. Some vehicles want higher-end batteries (longer range, faster charging, etc) that cost a lot more, while others want cheaper batteries. A motorcycle requires a way smaller battery than a semi. And on and on -- not even considering how hard it is to make all manufacturers adopt the same *anything*. There's really no good way to standardize. And even if you did standardize, battery tech is a moving target. A couple years from now and something better will come out. So you need to stock multiple generations of inventory. And each unit is hundreds of pounds and massive.
Rapid charging is the way to go. And thankfully Nissan is encouraging it. What the Leaf supports is pretty minimal for Level 3 charging, but it's definitely a start!
As for batteries themselves: while the weight and bulk of EV batteries is a disadvantage, it comes with advantages as well. Namely, you have a great deal of flexibility about where you can put it. Under the floor, like in the Leaf. Under the seats, like in the MiEV. Up front, like in a number of EVs. In the trunk, like the Roadster. Down the center tunnel, like in the Volt. Wherever is optimum for your vehicle's weight distribution and space availability, you can put it there. This gives you more freedom in designing the shape of your vehicle. Expect shorter hoods on EVs twenty years in the future, as that's no longer a requirement.
The weight is a disadvantage in handling in a number of regards, but at the same time, it's great for rollover resistance, since it's usually kept low. For an extreme example, see the Commuter Cars Tango.
Rapid charging is the way to go. And thankfully Nissan is encouraging it. What the Leaf supports is pretty minimal for Level 3 charging, but it's definitely a start!
As for batteries themselves: while the weight and bulk of EV batteries is a disadvantage, it comes with advantages as well. Namely, you have a great deal of flexibility about where you can put it. Under the floor, like in the Leaf. Under the seats, like in the MiEV. Up front, like in a number of EVs. In the trunk, like the Roadster. Down the center tunnel, like in the Volt. Wherever is optimum for your vehicle's weight distribution and space availability, you can put it there. This gives you more freedom in designing the shape of your vehicle. Expect shorter hoods on EVs twenty years in the future, as that's no longer a requirement.
The weight is a disadvantage in handling in a number of regards, but at the same time, it's great for rollover resistance, since it's usually kept low. For an extreme example, see the Commuter Cars Tango.
Dav
Well-known member
Karen, not to dispute you, but I wonder if the hood will ever shorten significantly. For safety reasons, people want to be located behind the front axle. Since you need to put "something" there, it might as well be all the auxiliary parts, like the electronics, the power for steering and braking, the air conditioning, fluids like windshield and headlight cleaner and even the steering column (until all cars are drive by wire).
I know there are vans and trucks that put people right up against the windshield for better vision, but I really feel they are sacrificing safety to do it.
I know there are vans and trucks that put people right up against the windshield for better vision, but I really feel they are sacrificing safety to do it.
A fair point indeed -- the length of the crumple zone is a major factor in determining G-forces, which are half of the equation (the other half is the integrity of the safety cell). But there are additional factors that come into play in determining the length of the crumple zone apart from hood length -- for example, the shape of your safety cell, how far back you sit in it, and how "boxed" the crumple zone is. Optimal aerodynamics would prefer a shorter, higher, and notably, more rounded nose (you want your taper in the rear more than you want it in the front). Rounding reduces hood space.
One can do a search for "eco-marathon" to get a good idea of what sort of shapes aerodynamics prefers. You'll notice that in many eco-racers, the driver is further forward than in a traditional car... but not always. You can still make more aerodynamic shapes than the conventional car front-end without reducing crumple zone length.
(Note that I don't mean to suggest that we all drive eco-marathon cars!)
One can do a search for "eco-marathon" to get a good idea of what sort of shapes aerodynamics prefers. You'll notice that in many eco-racers, the driver is further forward than in a traditional car... but not always. You can still make more aerodynamic shapes than the conventional car front-end without reducing crumple zone length.
(Note that I don't mean to suggest that we all drive eco-marathon cars!)
evnow
Well-known member
KarenRei said:
I'd add "in the US".
In countries where people don't care that much about owning cars like in Israel (or perhaps some places in EU) it could work. To me the biggest problem is - we don't want to get hooked on to one more private energy source after what we have gone through with oil. (may be I shouldn't be saying that in past tense ;-) )
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