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Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:49 pm
by smkettner
Why go wild on the outlet and then go minimum on the EVSE?
Get matching equipment.

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:05 pm
by jjeff
Personally I'd look into something like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Primecom-Electri ... spons&th=1 Similar to my 30a Zencar EVSE which I've been using for years.

I kind of like this model because it looks like it has a +/- for output amperage adjustments.
https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Charger- ... 88&sr=1-28
If you're talking about future proofing or even the ability to charge 2 EVs at once possibly sharing the same circuit, you'll really want a EVSE where you can dial down the charging rate. Many(and all Clipper Creek models) EVSEs don't let you limit the charging current, they always charge at the max(unless your car can't accept the max) so if your charging 2 EVs and they can both draw up to say 30a, you'll need a 60a+ circuit :o
Better to just dial down the charging current to say 20a each in which case it would be fine on a 50a circuit.
I would NOT get the EVSE you linked first, as others have said it maxes out at 16a in which case you'd just as well go with a simple 20a outlet and not bother with a high power outlet.
If you want a more name-brand EVSE Juicebox makes excellently adjustable EVSEs and are decently priced and JBs are now UL listed, for those that care about that(I'm not one of them). I believe the Juicebox site is cheaper than off Amazon, I also have a Juicebox but it's a pretty old model(my first L2 EVSE) purchased back in '14.

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:45 pm
by metricus
LeafSL14 wrote:
3. Can too much AMPs destroy anything or should the charger be able to control that?

4. Is a DC Quick charge something that could be installed in a home? Not needed, but just curious because I can't find much on it.


The outlet is going to be installed about a foot away from the breaker, so I figured I should future proof this since it shouldn't be much of a difference in cost, but let me know what you think. The house is newer and built last year. Images below

Thanks in advance!



3. You need to understand the physics of it: an electric device draws as many amperes as its designed to use. Think of a long jump athlete: he jumps as much as he can and making a bigger sand pit will not make the athlete jump further. On the other hand if the pit is too small he will land on hard ground and break his ankle.
So if your charger draws 27 amps, installing a smaller breaker will cause it to trip. If the braker is bigger nothing will happen.
EXCEPT: if you install a 50A breaker and something goes wrong with your device designed for 27A the breaker will not protect it and you may damage your device or even cause a fire. Remember that all wires INSIDE the charger are sized to 30A.

it is always a good idea to design the circuit EXACTLY for what it will do. My circuit uses 40A wire to comply with code but I installed 30A breaker such that it trips faster if the current exceeds 27A.

If your charger is so close to the breaker panel upgrading to a 50 A circuit will not be an issue in the future. i would advise against installing this charger on a 50A breaker.

4. DC charging is nearly impossible to install in a regular home due to the large power requirement. To supply 50 kW you need a 200A circuit at 240V which is all that your service can provide meaning that you cannot use anything in the house while charging. No inspector would allow you to do this. It is prohibitive in price (40K$) and you should not QC your leaf on a regular basis. So don't even think of it.

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:51 pm
by LeftieBiker
Metricus, your use of the term "charger" isn't accurate. The charger is built into the car, and the device that feeds it power is called, variously, an "EVSE," "charging cable" or "charging station" if wall mounted. It is little more than a smart power cord.

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:40 am
by RonDawg
smkettner wrote:
RonDawg wrote:
smkettner wrote:OP mentioned future proof.

I agree a 30 amp circuit with a hardwired ClipperCreek LCS-30 charging at 24 amps should serve the OP fine even if OP upgrades to a 300+ mile vehicle in the future.


But what if the OP gets two EV's, or an EV and a PHEV?

It doesn't cost that much more to wire a 50 amp circuit up front (assuming the capacity exists), and a lot more to have to re-do it if the OP desires a higher capacity in the future.
So add a second LCS-30 on its own circuit. Not rocket science here.
Really does not matter.... until it does. Will 2x 50 amp circuits be allowed on that panel?


But why go through the expense of adding a second circuit when he can already make the first circuit large enough to charge two EV’s at 20 amps each if necessary?

Fortunately the OP saw it my (and others’) way and is going to go with a 50 amp circuit ;)

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:16 am
by GerryAZ
The NEMA 14-50 receptacle with 50-ampere breaker is a great choice because it is a common type used with RVs as well as for EVSEs. The Clipper Creek HCS-50P is available with either the 6-50 plug (common for welders) or 14-50 plug (common for RVs) if you want a high-quality, name brand unit that will allow a car to charge at up to 40 amperes. I have one at my workshop/garage unit which I bought 3 years ago. If you order one, make sure you specify the 14-50 plug. Also, you might want to have whatever EVSE you decide to purchase on hand before having the receptacle installed. EVSEs that comply with national codes and standards have a very short supply cord so you need to determine the mounting location for the EVSE and then have the receptacle installed within reach of that short supply cord.

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:10 am
by LeftieBiker
Fortunately the OP saw it my (and others’) way and is going to go with a 50 amp circuit


And if he had gone with a 16A EVSE as he was considering doing, that would have been a dangerous combination. Kudos.

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 am
by smkettner
RonDawg wrote:But why go through the expense of adding a second circuit when he can already make the first circuit large enough to charge two EV’s at 20 amps each if necessary?

Fortunately the OP saw it my (and others’) way and is going to go with a 50 amp circuit ;)
What crazy adapter you using to plug two evse into a single NEMA 14-50? Or do you add a subpanel? Good grief.

What if the other vehicle connects in the rear such as Tesla? Do you pull wire to the point of need or do you drape the cord across the path where you walk?

I still recommend any 240v circuit should be sized to the load. Then you can't just plug in a second evse unless it has two cables and load sharing. Maybe that is what OP needs "just in case".

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:40 am
by LurchOR
metricus wrote:
LeafSL14 wrote:
3. Can too much AMPs destroy anything or should the charger be able to control that?


EXCEPT: if you install a 50A breaker and something goes wrong with your device designed for 27A the breaker will not protect it and you may damage your device or even cause a fire. Remember that all wires INSIDE the charger are sized to 30A.

it is always a good idea to design the circuit EXACTLY for what it will do. My circuit uses 40A wire to comply with code but I installed 30A breaker such that it trips faster if the current exceeds 27A.


Uh, you seem quite concerned with matching breaker size to load. Tell me, have you swapped out many (or any) of your 15A/20A house hold breakers because they only have lamps or cell phone chargers that draw 10% to 15% - or less - of breaker capacity?
I personally would not be concerned about using a device drawing 15-30 amps on a 50 amp circuit. My own EVSE draws about 28 amps off my 14-50R circuit, so I have placed my own safety in this opinion.
I think the quality and safety of the EVSE is much more important than matching breaker size when it comes to fire prevention.

Re: Level 2 Charging at Home Help

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:03 pm
by jjeff
smkettner wrote:
RonDawg wrote:But why go through the expense of adding a second circuit when he can already make the first circuit large enough to charge two EV’s at 20 amps each if necessary?

Fortunately the OP saw it my (and others’) way and is going to go with a 50 amp circuit ;)
What crazy adapter you using to plug two evse into a single NEMA 14-50? Or do you add a subpanel? Good grief.

I built my own as it was cheaper than purchasing one made but this:
https://www.amazon.com/RV-Female-Lighte ... 43&sr=8-37
I regularly charge our 2 Leafs using such an adapter, as long as my total load is no more than about 40a it works just fine :)
As my '12 maxes out at 16a that leaves 24a for my '13.