SageBrush
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 am

lorenfb wrote: That's basically
why I'll only do one QC per day if absolutely necessary. I've also noticed that speeds in excess of 60 MPH can quickly heat the battery too,
so my speeds are generally 50-55 MPH. Luckily here in SoCal that's typically the freeway speed with fairly light traffic.

For those concerned about "RapidGate", potentially lower successive charge rates are a fact one needs to adjust to with larger
capacity Leaf batteries not having TMS.

Sounds about right.

If OP is not annoyed enough yet he can figure out his cost/kWh to 'quick charge.'
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 2191
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 16, 2019 6:15 am

SageBrush wrote:Same heat but perhaps less temperature rise due to more mass.


But that assumes the same charge rate and time. Ideally with a larger battery and thus more range, one would expect
a higher charge rate. Tesla's and other BEV's goal is higher charge rates resulting is less charging time with bigger batteries.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10640
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 16, 2019 9:31 am

And Nissan (still) claims there is no need for a TMS...

LeftieBiker wrote: And, of course, Nissan continues to insist that very few North American drivers are complaining about the issue...
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

WetEV
Posts: 2868
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 16, 2019 11:32 am

TomT wrote:And Nissan (still) claims there is no need for a TMS...


Some people need a TMS. I suggest they buy a different EV.

Some people have no use for a TMS, and would prefer to have a battery that doesn't have one.

Don't impose your solutions on other people's needs and wishes.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

smkettner
Posts: 7338
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 16, 2019 2:14 pm

I have said it so many times. Until LEAF gets active thermal management.... don't buy it.
Yes it might work for some.... still cannot recommend it.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Thu May 16, 2019 7:21 pm

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Same heat but perhaps less temperature rise due to more mass.


But that assumes the same charge rate and time. Ideally with a larger battery and thus more range, one would expect
a higher charge rate. Tesla's and other BEV's goal is higher charge rates resulting is less charging time with bigger batteries.

I was figuring same ~ voltage and same kW during charging or driving compared to a smaller battery, so same current
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

metricus
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2019
Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Fri May 17, 2019 7:16 am

WetEV wrote:Some people need a TMS. I suggest they buy a different EV.

Some people have no use for a TMS, and would prefer to have a battery that doesn't have one.

Don't impose your solutions on other people's needs and wishes.


You are absolutely correct. My problem is Nissan not disclosing these strong limitations upfront so that the customer can make an informed decision.

In essence, after my 235 miles in 50 deg outside temperatures the temp gauge was on red and charge was 19% making the vehicle unusable.

I am an engineer and I perfectly understand the reasons behind these limitations and that you can make adjustments to partially mitigate the effects. I'd say that best case scenario you can count on MAXIMUM 250 miles/trip before you have to let it cool down most likely overnight.

The fundamental issue is that marketing and sales don't make it clear that the car has not only a range limitation between charges but the range are also limited per trip/day. Instead they make it sound that you can drive as much as you want provided you stop for a 30 min charge every 100 km/60mi or so. That's FALSE ADVERTISEMENT.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Fri May 17, 2019 7:22 am

cwerdna wrote:If really want to know what's going on w/battery temps, I strongly recommend Leaf Spy.

I can't speak to the '18+ Leaf temp gauge but the '11 to '17 one had huge overlapping ranges. Click on Battery Temperature Gauge at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/wiki/battery-d1/. And yes, I do use Leaf Spy and can tell you the temp gauge on the '13 is crap.



I found overlapping to be a minimal issue on my 40 (I gave up trying to quantify the bars on my 24 and 30)

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... -leaf.html
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Fri May 17, 2019 7:44 am

cwerdna wrote:Out of curiosity, is this a 40 kWh car or a 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Many other EVs have active thermal management... Bolt does but its DC FCing isn't that fast (from what I hear). In the case of https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/wat ... -to-55-kw/, it may start slowing down after 55% SoC. And, I hear it's quite slow if the battery's cold, until it warms up enough.


In a race with the Bolt, 30 kwh LEAF and 40 kwh LEAF, who would win?

Winner; 30 kwh LEAF simply because of its ability to charge at full speed to 80% SOC. Test based on 5 mins plus charge time for each QC stop. There were parameters for trip length with Bolt and 40 having advantage in shorter distances due to higher range which was GREATLY mitigated if all cars started race at 50% SOC.

FYI; The 30 wins barely if the race is long enough BUT the 40 loses badly in anything over 300 miles or so.

But the main advantage of having a bigger pack is simply more charging options convenient to personal needs (which often do not follow a schedule) and the ability to charge the lower 2/3rds of the pack (something Bolt excels) which helps to slow temperature rise.

I tested my 40 last Summer on OR Coast trip with short charging sessions of less than 20 mins and did not see "significant" slow down (on my scale is when pack temps exceed 100º)

Realize bar 6 covers temps from 78 to 96º F abouts which means lower end has earlier knee, upper end is throttled. I was seeing 37 kw at 95º over the 45-46 kw. Most wouldn't have noticed the difference. FYI; a lower starting charge rate does move the knee slightly higher but not enough to overcome the loss.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Fri May 17, 2019 10:43 am

The functional limitations of the LEAF are hard to convey to people not versed in the EV world.
Yesterday my wife and I took a day trip to a resort town in Colorado 200 miles away for biking (me) and soaking (wife and her friends.) There are DC chargers 50 miles into the trip but nada afterwards unless a 60 mile detour is taken and there is only ONE EVSE at the resort.

I left home with a full charge, then added 50 miles of range at the supercharger as insurance and arrived at the resort with 150 miles of range remaining. The EVSE was available and although L2, could supply up to 70 Amps so my Tesla Model 3 LR took 48 Amps. The car spent a total of ~ 3 hours at the EVSE and I had full range again by the time we were ready to leave.

No fuss. If the local EVSE had not been available I would have detoured to a Supercharger 90 miles away which is actually the only other DC charging available within a 150 mile radius of the resort.

Between having a large battery, fast L2 and Tesla network access, and actually fast DC charging as a back-up plan the EV does not restrict where we travel. Any LEAF, including the 62 kWh version, would have been a non-starter even with an overnight stay somewhere.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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