AndyH
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 2:12 pm

Rat wrote: I typically drive < 5 mi. before noon and then the car sits all day and all night. I would think that I could charge off 110V house current just fine, but the question of how that affects battery life was not addressed in this info. It's still not clear to me whether this approach is permitted, practical, or financially wise. I have 220 in my garage now, so it probably wouldn't be all that expensive to put in the charger, and I have to believe that there would be times I need to charge faster than 18 hours.


I'll also be using the Level 1 cable as the primary connection to the grid. As for how it might effect battery life - slower is better for any battery. We'll certainly not degrade the battery at all because of charging more slowly.

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garygid
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 2:42 pm

A typical home 120v socket might be on a 15 amp, or possibly a 20-amp breaker.

Drawing 16 amps from a 15-amp breaker will probably "pop" it.

Yes, I agree, it should be near 5 "mech" for 120v, not 4:
I was guessing, with overhead, and only drawing the "legal" 12 amps (80% for a continuous load) from a 15-amp breaker (1.4 kW), about 1.2 kW to fill 24 kWh => 20 hours (5 MECH).
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 3:12 pm

u must use a breaker connected to a GFCI which by law is rated at 20 Amps with 15 amp pass thru and can withstand a current of 16 amps easily as i have done for over 2½ years.

this is the only type of 110 circuit allowed for garage or outside use. plugging your car into an inside wall socket is HIGHLY discouraged as those 15 amp circuits normally trip if a current as much as 10 amps is drawn
Last edited by DaveinOlyWA on Sat May 29, 2010 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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garygid
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 3:13 pm

Estimating the distance "home" is relatively easy, especially with the GPS.
Estimating the necessary charge time is more difficult.

Being able to set the charging-completion for "miles-to-go" instead of just "time" (or "full") would seem helpful.

With experience, LEAF drivers will learn how "their miles" (including conditions and driving style) compare to the LEAF's "LA4" miles, and the "miles remaining" indicated by the LEAF's instruments.

Then, estimating the extra range gained by driving very slowly, one can decide to try to make it home, or "commit" to a charging (that might even require a substantial wait even before charging) ... that could be enough out of the way that one "for sure" needs at least a "short" charge to make it home.

Charging more than is needed to get home easily will usually be a waste of time, though free e-fuel (if that is available) might be attractive to some.

For some, with "short" trips, the charging will not be an issue. For others, operating near the real-life range limits, discovering and using suitable, available e-fuel locations will become a new skill.
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Gonewild
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 3:20 pm

Rat wrote:Well, somewhere earlier in another thread was the question as to whether we could dispense with the charger altogether if we can suffice with the trickle charge. At that time I thought Nissan was requiring the charger to be installed as a qualifier to reserve, but now it looks like that might only be for the EV Project. I typically drive < 5 mi. before noon and then the car sits all day and all night. I would think that I could charge off 110V house current just fine, but the question of how that affects battery life was not addressed in this info. It's still not clear to me whether this approach is permitted, practical, or financially wise. I have 220 in my garage now, so it probably wouldn't be all that expensive to put in the charger, and I have to believe that there would be times I need to charge faster than 18 hours.

Rat if you only drive 10 miles a day I would say you don't need to buy a leaf because an electric car is worth more if you drive a lot of mile. Because the cost or future cost of gas. I drive just under 80 miles to work and back and will save about $1,500 a year at current gas prices.
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garygid
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 3:29 pm

If one needs a 120v charge, a GFI-protected socket is not always available.

Likewise, it is often difficult (or impossible) to determine if a particular "home" socket is on a 20-amp breaker, or 15-amp.

Although 16 amps from a 20-amp breaker is allowed, it would "trip" most 15-amp breakers.

So, the "included" 120v EVSE might be "set" to tell the car "12 amps max.", not 16. Or, there might be a user-setting on the EVSE (or in the car) to select the 12/16 current-draw setting?

The EVSE is also supposed to contain a "GFI" type function, I believe.
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garygid
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 3:34 pm

Buying a "new" car is only rarely a fuel-cost issue.

With the EV being low noise, no gas and oil smell, essentially no service, no local pollution, etc. ... all these can easily overshadow the simple cost-of-fuel issue.
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planet4ever
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 7:07 pm

garygid wrote:If one needs a 120v charge, a GFI-protected socket is not always available.

Likewise, it is often difficult (or impossible) to determine if a particular "home" socket is on a 20-amp breaker, or 15-amp.

Although 16 amps from a 20-amp breaker is allowed, it would "trip" most 15-amp breakers.

So, the "included" 120v EVSE might be "set" to tell the car "12 amps max.", not 16. Or, there might be a user-setting on the EVSE (or in the car) to select the 12/16 current-draw setting?

The EVSE is also supposed to contain a "GFI" type function, I believe.

I believe over with the "other" car, GM has stated there is a setting at the connector on the 120v pluggable cable they will provide with the Volt. I would rather expect to see the same thing on the one Nissan gives us. (It might even come from the same company!)

Yes, ground fault interruption is required by code to be embedded in 120v EVSE pluggable cable. But DaveinOlyWA may still have an important point. I didn't realize that all garage and outdoor circuits had to be 20A and GFCI. If so, there might be less call for running on 15A than we thought, especially since it appears that use of extension cords is not legal.

But there still would be the issue of sharing a 20A garage circuit with tools in the garage. Wanta use your Skilsaw while your wife is sanding a dresser the easy way and the Leaf is charging? (OK, so I haven't seen a real Skilsaw for decades, but you know what I mean - a plug-in portable rotary saw.)
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 7:38 pm

on the "ChargePoint" (Coulomb) 120V "charger" they make (unlocks a door to reveal the outlet, and is remotly controllable/and has remote reporting), they specify do NOT use a GFCI circuit, as it will interfere with the built in circuitry on their device, they handle the ground fault detection (and resetting), so they don't want another device ahead of it that could trip and cause them to lose power.
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LEAFer
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Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 8:03 pm

planet4ever wrote:I believe over with the "other" car, GM has stated there is a setting at the connector on the 120v pluggable cable they will provide with the Volt. I would rather expect to see the same thing on the one Nissan gives us. (It might even come from the same company!)

Hmmm ... it would make sense the answer to the following is yes: is the "other" car's and the LEAF's 120V EVSE fully-interchangeable ? Making it a "commodity" item ... ripe for third-party market offering other "features" ?

Somewhat related: using the 120V EVSE ... is it still possible to pre-heat and -cool the car while it's plugged in ? ( On the Tesla it appears that compressor-cooling of the battery pack does not happen on 120V. )
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