mitch672
Posts: 1956
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:10 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 8:19 pm

LEAFer wrote:
planet4ever wrote:I believe over with the "other" car, GM has stated there is a setting at the connector on the 120v pluggable cable they will provide with the Volt. I would rather expect to see the same thing on the one Nissan gives us. (It might even come from the same company!)

Hmmm ... it would make sense the answer to the following is yes: is the "other" car's and the LEAF's 120V EVSE fully-interchangeable ? Making it a "commodity" item ... ripe for third-party market offering other "features" ?

Somewhat related: using the 120V EVSE ... is it still possible to pre-heat and -cool the car while it's plugged in ? ( On the Tesla it appears that compressor-cooling of the battery pack does not happen on 120V. )


I would think so, but it might run the main pack down a bit, as it's getting much less amperage, still it will be better than the car not connected at all and pre-warming/cooling.

and, I bet there are only 1 or 2 Japanese companies making these 120V L1 EVSE's, and I bet they will all look the same, and are interchangable as well, since it's a standard. Bet the Leaf, Volt and Plug-in Prius, could use each others with no problem...
2012 Advanced Plug in Prius (sold)
I Support OpenEVSE: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
My Fuelly page: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/mitch672/prius-plugin
Tesla Model S 85KW Dolphin Grey VIN: 03245, delivered 1/17/2013

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13880
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 8:21 pm

i built my own house back in the early 90's and code for all electrical sockets that can come in contact with water says they must be GFCI or be connected to one (you can generally have up to 5 outlets on a single GFCI connection) that means all laundry, kitchen, bathroom, garage and outdoor sockets.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sat May 29, 2010 11:58 pm

LEAFer wrote:Hmmm ... it would make sense the answer to the following is yes: is the "other" car's and the LEAF's 120V EVSE fully-interchangeable ? Making it a "commodity" item ... ripe for third-party market offering other "features"?

Yes, fully interchangeable. The connector at the car meets the SAE J1772 standard. It's not only the same for all (or nearly all) new pluggable vehicles coming out, it's also exactly the same connector for 120v and 240v. The EVSE logic between that connector and the wall - no matter how it connects to the wall - communicates with the car to agree on a voltage and amperage.

As for other features, the standard is likely to restrict those fairly significantly. I would definitely expect some very nice price competition, though. I tend to think of this as a "smart cable", sort of like HDMI cables. Now that those have been around for a while, how many different features can you find built into the cables? There are some nice ones in the devices they connect, but the cables, not so much. Now, how much did you have to pay for HDMI cables when they first came out, and how much do you pay now?
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

User avatar
LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Sun May 30, 2010 8:20 am

planet4ever wrote:
LEAFer wrote:Hmmm ... it would make sense the answer to the following is yes: is the "other" car's and the LEAF's 120V EVSE fully-interchangeable ? Making it a "commodity" item ... ripe for third-party market offering other "features"?

Yes, fully interchangeable. The connector at the car meets the SAE J1772 standard. It's not only the same for all (or nearly all) new pluggable vehicles coming out, it's also exactly the same connector for 120v and 240v. The EVSE logic between that connector and the wall - no matter how it connects to the wall - communicates with the car to agree on a voltage and amperage.

As for other features, the standard is likely to restrict those fairly significantly. I would definitely expect some very nice price competition, though. I tend to think of this as a "smart cable", sort of like HDMI cables. Now that those have been around for a while, how many different features can you find built into the cables? There are some nice ones in the devices they connect, but the cables, not so much. Now, how much did you have to pay for HDMI cables when they first came out, and how much do you pay now?

Does the SAE standard prevent a manufacturer from adding/imbedding proprietary coding whereby the car's charger might reject another manufacturer's EVSE ? (Sorry for the paranoia. Ink jet printer experience, etc).

A feature I was thinking about ... similar to what Kill-A-Watt provides, but directly on the EVSE (integrated LCD)... to verify/supplement/simplify the data in the car as to kWh used/charged.
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Mon May 31, 2010 6:15 pm

The purpose of a standard practice is to allow interchangeability. The intent voiced by car and EVSE manufacturers is that J1772 be a 'one size fits all' universal charge interface. It's in the best interest of any car company to use the standard charge infrastructure.

For those and other reasons, I don't expect that any car company would benefit from 'spiking' the charge coupler so their owners can't use the available public infrastructure.

For Level 1 charging...in the US we can have 15A and 20A 120V outlets. The first couple of data sheets I've seen for L1 EVSE suggest they'll stay with the lowest common denominator of working correctly with a 15A outlet. I don't expect manufacturers would want the liability hassles of someone trying to draw 20A from a 15A outlet. They have to 'protect us' from the bottom 1%. :(

Bicster
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:18 am
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Mon May 31, 2010 7:07 pm

The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. 8-)
Reserved on April 20, 2010 - Never purchased

User avatar
LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Mon May 31, 2010 10:22 pm

AndyH wrote:The purpose of a standard practice is to allow interchangeability. The intent voiced by car and EVSE manufacturers is that J1772 be a 'one size fits all' universal charge interface. It's in the best interest of any car company to use the standard charge infrastructure.

For those and other reasons, I don't expect that any car company would benefit from 'spiking' the charge coupler so their owners can't use the available public infrastructure.

For Level 1 charging...in the US we can have 15A and 20A 120V outlets. The first couple of data sheets I've seen for L1 EVSE suggest they'll stay with the lowest common denominator of working correctly with a 15A outlet. I don't expect manufacturers would want the liability hassles of someone trying to draw 20A from a 15A outlet. They have to 'protect us' from the bottom 1%. :(

I wasn't suggesting that the charge coupler is spiked to the point that you can't charge my car at public EVSE places. I was (paranoidly) worrying whether they could prevent me from using another (different) car's cable with my vehicle.

On Level 1: 20amp breaker=16amp draw. 15amp breaker=12amp draw. But if the coupler offered a feature of allowing pigtails (and being able to tell which one the user attaches), then I could change to a 20A pigtail to fit a 20A receptacle (NEMA 5-20R) to charge 33% faster at 16amps! (If the 5-20R receptacle was legally installed it is assured of having a 20A breaker.)

If the receptacle is only a NEMA 5-15R, then the 5-20P plug won't fit and I'd be forced to use the lower rated pigtail and charge at 12A.

The Tesla "Universal Mobile Connector" is such a "smart" coupler, and offers a variety of Universal Adapters. Click here.
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Mon May 31, 2010 11:14 pm

LEAFer wrote:I wasn't suggesting that the charge coupler is spiked to the point that you can't charge my car at public EVSE places. I was (paranoidly) worrying whether they could prevent me from using another (different) car's cable with my vehicle.


Right - that's what my 'sloppy' spiked comment meant. Sorry.

LEAFer wrote:On Level 1: 20amp breaker=16amp draw. 15amp breaker=12amp draw. But if the coupler offered a feature of allowing pigtails (and being able to tell which one the user attaches), then I could change to a 20A pigtail to fit a 20A receptacle (NEMA 5-20R) to charge 33% faster at 16amps! (If the 5-20R receptacle was legally installed it is assured of having a 20A breaker.)

If the receptacle is only a NEMA 5-15R, then the 5-20P plug won't fit and I'd be forced to use the lower rated pigtail and charge at 12A.

The Tesla "Universal Mobile Connector" is such a "smart" coupler, and offers a variety of Universal Adapters. Click here.


The images I've seen of the Nissan and Delphi L1 units suggest they're not equipped with swappable bits or switches. That doesn't mean others might not have them at some point...

User avatar
garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12460
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:11 am

Another limit will be the maximum charge rate built into the car.

For example: At 120v, the car might only "eat" 12 amps, even if "offered" 15 (or 20) amps.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

User avatar
LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Details on Nissan Leaf battery pack, charge rates, lifespan

Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:31 am

garygid wrote:Another limit will be the maximum charge rate built into the car.

For example: At 120v, the car might only "eat" 12 amps, even if "offered" 15 (or 20) amps.
That would be a shame ... not only should Nissan allow 3rd party mobile connectors, but the (J1772 standardized) signaling from those connectors (saying " I have safely connected to and can feed you 16A ") should be accepted by the car.
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

Return to “Batteries & Charging”