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LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Storage Mode

Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:18 am

I am cross posting from another thread:
daniel wrote:For anything under a month of storage, a charger is unnecessary, and it's probably unneeded for anything under two or three months.

What happens to the LEAF traction battery in 1-2-3 months ? I've heard of Tesla accidents and the car being at salvage yards sitting unattended and ruining the (very expensive) battery.

Q: How much discharge is expected for the LEAF if not plugged in ?
Q: Is the solar panel (daytime, unobstructed) in any way able to maintain the health of the traction battery ?
Q: Is there a long-term "store it" mode in the LEAF (trickle charging while plugged in) ?
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

Dav
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:19 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Storage Mode

Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:57 am

1) less than 1% per day
2) no. It is connected to the aux battery which is isolated from the traction pack when car is off
3) no. As with anything you undertake responsibility with your purchase. The traction pack requires high voltage DC charging. No trickle charger can supply that. Have a friend charge it for you once every couple of months.

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LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Storage Mode

Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:24 pm

Dav wrote:1) less than 1% per day
2) no. It is connected to the aux battery which is isolated from the traction pack when car is off
3) no. As with anything you undertake responsibility with your purchase. The traction pack requires high voltage DC charging. No trickle charger can supply that. Have a friend charge it for you once every couple of months.

Wrong on 3) ("requires high voltage DC"; low voltage AC (110V) should suffice). Also ... Tesla has a "Storage Mode" ... then again, they have a near constant running coolant pump (in hotter climates) which takes quite a bit of power. (see here and (full thread) here).
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Storage Mode

Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:00 pm

LEAFer wrote:What happens to the LEAF traction battery in 1-2-3 months ? I've heard of Tesla accidents and the car being at salvage yards sitting unattended and ruining the (very expensive) battery.

Q: How much discharge is expected for the LEAF if not plugged in ?
Q: Is the solar panel (daytime, unobstructed) in any way able to maintain the health of the traction battery ?
Q: Is there a long-term "store it" mode in the LEAF (trickle charging while plugged in) ?


Provided there are no loads on the traction pack, the only drain is self-discharge and this is in the range of 3% per month.

The solar panel is only going to be useful for the auxiliary battery - the 12V 'starter' battery. If the car ships with lead acid here, expect about 20% per month of self discharge. The solar panel will help but since we don't yet know how much energy it provides, and how much of a load the car's systems will have on the aux battery, we really don't know if it's enough to keep the lead-acid battery healthy for long-term storage.

Lithium batteries generally don't want to be trickle charged (and the 110v Level 1 interface really isn't a trickle charge).

The Tesla uses the same type of lithium ion batteries used in laptops and other consumer products (either lithium cobalt or lithium polymer - don't recall which). It has different self discharge and charge/discharge needs than the lithium manganese battery used in the Leaf.

The Leaf should have a set of contactors (big relays) that disconnect the traction pack. It should also have a 'power disconnect' plug of some type that positively disables the traction pack even if the car activates the contactors (as in - someone inserts the key and tries to drive away). For storage longer than 3 months, it might be enough to put the car on jack stands so the wheels don't get flat spots, pull the traction disable plug, and put a 1A charger on the lead-acid battery.

Andy

(I work with lithium iron phosphate, and have put cars into long-term storage, but haven't yet put a Leaf into long term storage. ;) )

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LEAFer
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
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Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Storage Mode

Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:36 pm

AndyH wrote:(I work with lithium iron phosphate, and have put cars into long-term storage, but haven't yet put a Leaf into long term storage. ;) )

Useful info, thanks. Do you think LiMN are similar enough to LiFePo in terms of discharge rate ?
Sorry, I should not have used the term "trickle charging" with 110V. The threads I referenced above indicate that the Tesla BMS controls the SOC while in a long-term storage mode (and I assumed being plugged into 110V) to keep the battery healthy, including cooling if necessary. That, of course, means the charging ciruit is turned on/off automatically as needed, while keeping the battery at a relatively low SOC for longevity on the laptop types that are being used. It appears that for the Tesla, keeping it unplugged for a very long time is really bad for its battery (it effectively disables the benefits of the Tesla proprietary and very smart BMS to function as designed).
Since the LEAF allows inquiry of its status remotely, I wonder which battery powers that feature, and what would happen if you leave on a long vacation after running the battery really low the day before. Does the car "call" you (or the dealer) ?
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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