Bassman
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:30 am
Location: Angels Camp, CA

Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected Life

Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:08 pm

Nissan VP. explains the LEAF batteries and Nissan's expected life.
http://nissan-leaf.net/2011/08/07/video ... echnology/
Take away from the video:

1) 10 Year expected overall life for battery pack
2) 5 Years at 12,000 miles/year - 80% capacity remaining and
3) Nissan doesn't expect to replace the whole pack, just a few modules at hundreds of dollars per module rather than thousands for a whole pack
Glenn
Ocean Blue SL w/QC,
Delivered 4/29/2011- VIN# 756
34,800 miles so far (2/20/2013) Still 12 bars @ 100% charge, but range has reduced by about 10 to 12 %
2012 Pearl White (Blizzard) Rav4 EV

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10576
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm

This is making my 4 year lease look even more advantageous... 75-80 percent is the minimum I could tolerate and still have the range I need to use the car in my daily travels...

Bassman wrote: 5 Years at 12,000 miles/year - 80% capacity remaining
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 configured.

User avatar
surfingslovak
Vendor
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Bassman wrote: 5 Years at 12,000 miles/year - 80% capacity remaining

Wow, so we went from 3% to 2.5% and now back up to 4% annual capacity fade over the course of the past 16 months. While it's refreshing to see someone to go on record like this, and to hear that the repair cost should be reasonable, Nissan is certainly anything but upfront with their data. This really needs to change. The Leaf is a major investment and they cannot change their story every couple of months. I'm disappointed.

User avatar
Electric4Me
Gold Member
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:25 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 772
Location: Union City, CA

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:17 pm

mogur wrote:This is making my 4 year lease look even more advantageous... 75-80 percent is the minimum I could tolerate and still have the range I need to use the car in my daily travels...


I'm expecting the capacity degradation to be inverse to public charging infrastructure roll out so I'm not too concerned about this. And in 5 years my now 11 year old daughter wants this car so a limited range might be a benefit!
Bill Davis
2011 Cayenne Red SL
2014 Toyota RAV4 EV
6.4 kW PV system
Fun in the Leaf! (video)

charlie1300
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:23 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2012
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:06 pm

OK, I think this seals the deal on deciding to lease Vs purchase. Mark Perry's "I expect most first year buyers to lease" has been haunting me for over a year. Obviously he knows something about the battery life that I don't.
So this confirms it. The battery life is functionally 5 years. (yes I know it will go on holding a charge at some increasingly lower capacity for many more years, but that's really missing the point.)
So adding all the factors together - 100 mile range is really about 75-80 in other than perfect conditions, 5 year degradation, puts range at about 60 miles, (probably about 45 miles in our frozen winters), no capacity warranty on the battery - there is no hope that this car will meet my needs past 5-6 years. I have always bought (usually with cash), but that presumes the car will last at least 8 years. Will lease for 3-4 years and hope for a better battery in Gen2.
reserved : 05/25/2010
AV installed : What, do you think I'm crazy? Got Phil's EVSE upgrade!
Order letter : 9/29/2011
Order date: 1/21/2012
MY Leaf: RED! SL
delivery date: April 5, 2012

leaflover
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:05 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Aug 2011

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:17 pm

In this article: http://cleantechnica.com/2011/08/09/nis ... ery-video/ it is suggested that the battery life will fall off initially more than after possibly a year or two. So lets say that in the first 2 years battery capacity drops off to 90% and then for the next 8 years it drops off about 2% / year. Does that make a difference to leasing or buying?

Also has the other question posed in the article about the intitial cost of the battery ever been answered?

Herm
Posts: 3765
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 3:08 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2012
Location: Timbuktu, Mali

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:26 am

Nissan has never said how much it pays for the batteries, but they have priced the replacement modules at the dealership parts dept, perhaps there is a discount if you buy a whole pack.. I believe mechanics get a 50%, or perhaps 30%, discount when they buy parts.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10576
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:48 am

If it follows typical automotive parts pricing, dealers get 40 percent off and jobbers (independent mechanics, shops, and the like) get 20 percent off from the dealer.

Herm wrote:Nissan has never said how much it pays for the batteries, but they have priced the replacement modules at the dealership parts dept, perhaps there is a discount if you buy a whole pack.. I believe mechanics get a 50%, or perhaps 30%, discount when they buy parts.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 configured.

leaflover
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:05 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Aug 2011

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:33 am

Well... there are 48 modules how much are they @?

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 1987
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected

Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:57 am

I watched the same video a couple of days ago and I don't share the same pessimistic view as some others here. He was very clear that:

1) His comments/numbers leaned towards the bottom end of "average", or they wouldn't be part of a warranty (they're not stupid)
2) He basically said you'll NEVER replace an entire battery pack, and I don't think the possibility of spending $1k+ on battery modules at 10+ years is unreasonable (I've spent more on timing belts, tune-ups, etc. in the past).

In general, I think people will drive a Leaf MUCH less (miles/yr) than an ICE counterpart just from it's limited range standpoint. This, combined with gentle charging practices (mostly 80%, no quick-charging, etc.) should reward those "EV ready" drivers with a long-life battery pack.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

Return to “Batteries & Charging”