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evnow
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:12 pm

pgrovetom wrote:I'm sure they will but early Leaf adopters as yet can only use the Aerovironment unit.


As I've said before, this is not correct. EV project will use ECOtality chargers.
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:39 pm

pgrovetom wrote:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/06/coulomb-says-its-chargepoint-networked-ev-charging-station-works-with-leaf.html


By the way. This Chargepoint unit is a Commercial Networked Station, not one intended for a garage. I have yet to see any of the low cost garage EVSE's claim compatibility with the Leaf as yet. I'm sure they will but early Leaf adopters as yet can only use the Aerovironment unit. If you read my post about the San Diego Infrastructure document, they indicate a $780 unit price for the EVSE. The rest of the $2200 is labor and wiring material costs.


The large Chargepoint units are commercial - quite correct - but the points are 1. As long as an EVSE manufacturer builds a J1772 unit there is NO NEED to 'claim compatibility' with any EV that requires a J1772 EVSE. In spite of being redundant, 2. companies ARE affirming compatibility because they now have to not only provide a technical solution but also have to overcome FUD in the market space. And 3. Coloumb is providing the EVSE for the Dept of Energy study customers - so yes - the devices they install in garages also have to be compatible with the Leaf. ;)

http://www.coulombtech.com/chargepoint-open-standards.php
(Emphasis mine)
The ChargePoint Network is founded on an open, standards-based architecture providing both station owners and drivers a flexible and consistent platform for plug-in electric vehicle fueling.
The network allows the integration of systems and hardware from multiple suppliers providing station owners the freedom to choose the best charging options available - accommodating the evolving vehicle charging needs of today and tomorrow.
The network's IP based protocols and standard interfaces allow the network to easily scale and integrate with existing business systems. Published, open XML API interfaces to the CPNOS provide seamless integration into a company's office systems or a Utility's AMI systems. The network also provides opportunities for custom applications and new businesses. Charging station location and availability information can be used in custom mobile phone applications and more.
Open standards create a consistent, familiar experience for drivers using the ChargePoint Network to obtain electric fuel. Implementing standards based connectors such as the J1772TM Level II connector ensure drivers can easily plug-in and fuel their vehicle with any ChargePoint charging station. The stations' integrated RFID reader supports ISO 15693, ISO 14443, MiFare, and contactless credit cards enabling drivers to activate charging sessions anywhere in the world using a ChargePass Card or a credit card.

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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:48 pm

As I've said before, this is not correct. EV project will use ECOtality chargers.


The EV Project is a specially funded project which is not controlled by Nissan and if ECOTality got the home charger contract, its was not available to regular Leaf buyers last week. My discussions here and with Nissan and AV last week were concerning the regular Leaf rollout where both Nissan and AV said in no uncertain terms, I had no other choice except AV installed by AV approved installers. Its not terribly meaningful nor does it address my points unless its available outside the EV Project which according to their website is not available in my area even though I did sign up.

I'll call Nissan again and verify they haven't changed their plans but what is happening inside the EV Project is not relevant to people who are waiting to get a Leaf now who are not in the EV Project who I believe is providing them free. We all know that eventually everyone will have done compatibility testing with everyone else and EVs and EVSEs will be widely inter-compatible.

All my comments are revolving around the first group of Leaf buyers and how Draconian Nissan was when I spoke with them. I'll repeat myself because someone else who was not listening to me accused me of that. I'm only talking about the first Leaf buyers and the excessively tight attitude Nissan and AV have around the EVSE and it's install and compatibility now. I
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evnow
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:21 pm

pgrovetom wrote:The EV Project is a specially funded project which is not controlled by Nissan and if ECOTality got the home charger contract, its was not available to regular Leaf buyers last week.


I was responding to your particular statement. BTW, most of the initial Leaf buyers are likely to be EV Project people ...

Anyway, as LEAFer posted, ECOtality will announce their EVSE prices in July. So, they will be available to everyone ...
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pgrovetom
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:09 pm

I was responding to your particular statement.


Which statement was that? Is there something I said you don't like?


BTW, most of the initial Leaf buyers are likely to be EV Project people ...


Maybe so but does that have something to do with my concerns about what Nissan told me? Maybe you could call Nissan and see what they say to you? I was hoping somebody who actually spoke with Nissan, like me 3 times and AV would comment on what they were told and not speculate about marginally related things.

Anyway, as LEAFer posted, ECOtality will announce their EVSE prices in July. So, they will be available to everyone ...


How do you know that plus do you have any idea about what their prices will be and or their installation policy? I've installed a number of 220V appliances like a stove top and been through the county building permit and NEC code inspection without any problems. I noticed in the San Diego Infrastructure document they refer to the 40A breaker, THHN wire and a 40A disconnect switch between the EVSE and sub-panel. Do you know if ECOtality will have an installation policy or leave it up to the particular county/city jurisdiction for code compliance?

It would just be nice to save $1000 if possible. I'm not sure why this is controversial?
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:19 pm

ECOTality did not mention an install policy on the phone (see "San Diego Leaf Fanatics!" thread). And despite us specifically discussing the LEAF, Paul did not mention or deny or confirm any exclusivity associated between LEAF and AV, but then again, he's interested in the opposite and/or also may be unaware. Naturally this still does not allay any of our fears (induced by Nissan's FUD campaign) about Nissan's verbally uttered exclusivity requirement (can only use AV EVSE).

pgrovetom has a point ... but we've discussed it to death. Nissan should not legally be able to force us to use AV, nor should they do so from a moral or good customer service perspective. The same holds for AV. But the two have a partnership they are protective of, and AV's business plan and bottom line calculation (profit target) may require a certain volume of units.

By end of July we'll know pricing on ECOTality's (eTec's) EVSE's. We'll also have better data from the AV Home Assessents. At that point we can make better decisions. ( For example, sign a waiver with Nissan to commit to "trickle charging" only, but install an ECOTality (or whoever's) EVSE anyway :twisted: )
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:56 am

LEAFer wrote:ECOTality did not mention an install policy on the phone (see "San Diego Leaf Fanatics!" thread). And despite us specifically discussing the LEAF, Paul did not mention or deny or confirm any exclusivity associated between LEAF and AV, but then again, he's interested in the opposite and/or also may be unaware. Naturally this still does not allay any of our fears (induced by Nissan's FUD campaign) about Nissan's verbally uttered exclusivity requirement (can only use AV EVSE).

pgrovetom has a point ... but we've discussed it to death. Nissan should not legally be able to force us to use AV, nor should they do so from a moral or good customer service perspective. The same holds for AV. But the two have a partnership they are protective of, and AV's business plan and bottom line calculation (profit target) may require a certain volume of units.

By end of July we'll know pricing on ECOTality's (eTec's) EVSE's. We'll also have better data from the AV Home Assessents. At that point we can make better decisions. ( For example, sign a waiver with Nissan to commit to "trickle charging" only, but install an ECOTality (or whoever's) EVSE anyway :twisted: )


Hello Leafer,
I cross read other threads, but it still not clear to me about Nissan's waiver. I think initially, I do plan to purchase a Leaf but will not install the Nissan EVSE (via AV). What kind of waiver must I sign? Does it forfeit the warranty of my Leaf?

Many thanks!

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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:24 am

mxp wrote:Hello Leafer,
I cross read other threads, but it still not clear to me about Nissan's waiver. I think initially, I do plan to purchase a Leaf but will not install the Nissan EVSE (via AV). What kind of waiver must I sign? Does it forfeit the warranty of my Leaf?

Many thanks!

I don't know about the contents of the waiver, not even sure a waiver exists. But I also have heard rumors of a possible waiver. However, I can't imagine a waiver being legal in the sense that it waives the warranty. This "waiver" or whatever it might get called, is more likely a "disclaimer", and could be constructed in the form of an admission on the part of the vehicle owner that trickle charging is extremely slow and will limit the usefulness of the vehicle, and that Nissan is not liable for any consequences of such limitations and (getting paranoid here) that Owner may not make disparaging comments in any way/shape/form or media ... regarding such limitations under penalty of being sued ??? :roll:
So ... we'll have to wait a little to find out what Nissan's up to. I'm sure they will highly discourage NOT installing a 240V EVSE.
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evnow
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:11 am

mxp wrote:I cross read other threads, but it still not clear to me about Nissan's waiver. I think initially, I do plan to purchase a Leaf but will not install the Nissan EVSE (via AV). What kind of waiver must I sign? Does it forfeit the warranty of my Leaf?


Ofcourse it can;t forfeit warranty. Nissan uses J-1772 which mandates that any other J-1772 certified charger should work. That is the sole idea about standards.
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:56 am

evnow wrote:
mxp wrote:I cross read other threads, but it still not clear to me about Nissan's waiver. I think initially, I do plan to purchase a Leaf but will not install the Nissan EVSE (via AV). What kind of waiver must I sign? Does it forfeit the warranty of my Leaf?


Ofcourse it can;t forfeit warranty. Nissan uses J-1772 which mandates that any other J-1772 certified charger should work. That is the sole idea about standards.

The waiver we are talking about here is not the waiver (if one exists) for using someone else's EVSE, but using no EVSE at all (at first -- and as far as Nissan is concerned), i.e. "trickle charging" only.
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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