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evnow
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:11 am

LEAFer wrote:The waiver we are talking about here is not the waiver (if one exists) for using someone else's EVSE, but using no EVSE at all (at first -- and as far as Nissan is concerned), i.e. "trickle charging" only.


Yes - but that may have something about other EVSEs too.

BTW, the trickle charging will be done using EVSE - albeit a 110V one which Nissan supplies. So, if the waiver just covers this, it would be something about how long the charging will take ...
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
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LEAFer
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:24 am

evnow wrote:
LEAFer wrote:The waiver we are talking about here is not the waiver (if one exists) for using someone else's EVSE, but using no EVSE at all (at first -- and as far as Nissan is concerned), i.e. "trickle charging" only.


Yes - but that may have something about other EVSEs too.

BTW, the trickle charging will be done using EVSE - albeit a 110V one which Nissan supplies. So, if the waiver just covers this, it would be something about how long the charging will take ...

Sorry ... you're right. EVSE still needed for 120V. So scrap my "using no EVSE at all" phrase, and substitute "using Nissan's included EVSE".
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

AndyH
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:17 pm

pgrovetom wrote:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/06/coulomb-says-its-chargepoint-networked-ev-charging-station-works-with-leaf.html


By the way. This Chargepoint unit is a Commercial Networked Station, not one intended for a garage. I have yet to see any of the low cost garage EVSE's claim compatibility with the Leaf as yet. I'm sure they will but early Leaf adopters as yet can only use the Aerovironment unit. If you read my post about the San Diego Infrastructure document, they indicate a $780 unit price for the EVSE. The rest of the $2200 is labor and wiring material costs.


Here's another data point for you. Coulomb is supplying EVSE equipment to both the ChargePoint America program (for the Volt PHEV and Ford/Smart EVs) and the EV Project (for the Leaf and Volt PHEV). The DOE is funding free home EVSE installations for owners of the Volt PHEV, Ford Transit and Focus EVs, and Smart ForTwo EV via ChargePoint America program.

http://chargepointamerica.com/faq-drivers.php
What criteria will determine who receives a free home charging stations?
Any purchaser of a program electric vehicle (the Chevrolet Volt, the Ford Transit Connect and Ford Focus Electric, or the smart fortwo electric drive), whose home is located within one of the nine target regions, will be eligible to receive a home charging station at no cost. Homes must be within one of these metro/city areas: Austin, Los Angeles, New York, Orlando, Sacramento, San Jose/San Francisco Bay Area, Bellevue/Redmond, Washington DC, Southern Michigan from Grand Rapids to Lansing to Ann Arbor to Detroit. Please ask your dealer for more information about the ChargePoint America program when you purchase a new electric vehicle.


We already know from the press release that the Coulomb units are Leaf compatible. In addition, we now also know that:
Do the ChargePoint charging stations work with any electric vehicle?
The ChargePoint Networked Charging Stations will work with any electric vehicle on the market. There is an industry standard for Level II charging: the SAE J1772™ connector that all vehicles on the market will use. Even for older electric vehicles, charging at ChargePoint stations is still possible. So if you’re planning to own one of the ChargePoint America program vehicles (the Chevrolet Volt, the Ford Transit Connect and Ford Focus Electric, or the smart fortwo electric drive), you will be able to charge at any ChargePoint stations and utilize all the functions of the network.


I hope that helps. I absolutely HATE to NOT KNOW! And fear will cripple a person faster than an oil rig explosion. I hope I've presented you with enough info now so that you can see thru first level support tech's at either Nissan or AV when they mistakenly suggest that the sky is not blue. ;) (Or that someone else's J1772 EVSE 'might not work' with the Leaf.)

Andy

Gack...I also hate bad info. Thanks LEAFer!
Last edited by AndyH on Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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LEAFer
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:52 pm

AndyH wrote:Here's another data point for you. Coulomb is to the ChargePoint America program as AeroVironment is to the Leaf. The DOE is funding free home EVSE installations for owners of the Volt PHEV, Ford Transit and Focus EVs, and Smart ForTwo EV.

Andy

Shouldn't that be ...
a] Coulomb is to the ChargePoint America program as ECOTality is to AeroVironment.; *AND*/*OR*
b] ChargePoint America is to the {Volt/Ford/Smart} as AeroVironment is to the LEAF.;

*OR* do I misunderstand something of the partnerships ?
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

AndyH
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:10 pm

Yup...screwed that up, didn't I? :oops:

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LEAFer
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:13 pm

No prob ... can happen to anyone :)
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:59 am

AV has nothing to do with the IRS. If you install any type of IRS outlined alternative vehicle charging station you are entitled to the IRS credit, you just need a receipt for the expenses. There are no "IRS" approved installer requirements, the IRS only cares you paid for it and it is as stated. Nissan wants to avoid all the issues of people messing up their cars so they make all these compatibility statements. This is all so very silly, does anyone think Nissan and EVSE makers won't all play well together on all levels? It is Nissan's goal to have as many compatible stations everywhere they possibly can no matter what the source, they WANT you to have as many public charging options so they can sell cars and eliminate charging objections. Many business will buy from people like Clipper C and others and it will be a STANDARD. There are new residential EVSE products on the way, I know this as a fact and many more will follow. If you want to wait then use the 120 cord and sign the waiver but don't bother telling Nissan what you intend to do it just makes it more complicated. Remember, there will be EVSE stations all over and Nissan FULLY expects people to plug into them if the cord fits and they don't expect people to check the box for a "Nissan" approved sticker. This entire thing is being blown out of proportion, it is a basic charging cord with a standard communication and this is about not stepping on toes at the moment. If the price makes sense form AV, then get it as it will for many. DIY people will find their own solution.

The IRS docs are available online- nothing stipulates an IRS approved installer as expected
Don't expect to see EVSE units in places that won't work on a Leaf, unlikely unless broken
Expect affordable EVSE options in the private market (not funded programs rushing to use the funds to get paid)
Ask AV for their IRS "certified documents" so you know that you will get the credit and they are "approved"- LOL

pgrovetom
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:49 pm

I tried to email some of the other potential suppliers for EVSEs and got the response below form CliperCreek. Other than the pricing at $3000 which he says has been tested with the Leaf, he does confirm both ClipperCreek, Coulomb and Ecotality will be alternates to the AV EVSE. I wrote back asking about what the $3000 includes but got no response. Does anyone know anything about this CS-40 and the 2900 units he says they have installed? He must know about Nissan's $2200 AV price installed and it's odd he would quote such a high price. I really feel Nissan is blowing it by not clearing this mess up given their marvelous market position. I guess its pretty normal for the industry.

Thank you for your interest in ClipperCreek products.

First, I should correct a few data points you received from the other EVSE OEM.

1) The Federal tax credit goes to whomever installs the EVSE. The property owner usually.
- Any EVSE is capable of getting this tax credit. The credit is for the installation of a system.
2) Nissan is able to provide a free EVSE to some customers in targeted market areas.
- See recent announcements by Ecotality and Coulomb.
- In other markets Nissan is picking suppliers to work with and AV was the first selected.


ClipperCreek does and has been shipping UL Listed Level II EVSEs for months. We have over 2500 units installed since 2009. The price of our CS-40 model which has been tested with the Leaf retails for $3,000.

[url]I have attached a link to our brochure for your reference. Here's a link to 'ClipperCreek CS EVSE.pdf'[/url]

If I can assist you further please let me know.

Regards,

Michael Paritee
Business Operations Manager
ClipperCreek Inc

609.902.0122
mp@ClipperCreek.net
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pgrovetom
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:14 pm

Here is an good document from the EV Project for the California CPUC on March 2010

EVSE PERMITTING AND INSTALLATIONS FOR THE EV PROJECT

eCotality eTec Sandbag

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/B97A5206-5E19-4060-A3B9-0F8703629937/0/eTecEVSEPermittingandInstallationsfortheEVProject.pdf
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DeaneG
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:59 am

EVDRIVER wrote:..The IRS docs are available online- nothing stipulates an IRS approved installer as expected..

Would you happen to have an IRS form number handy? I'd like to check into the requirement for the EV and EVSE to be purchased the same tax year. I have a small suspicion that even as a very early "reserver", chances are good I won't have a Leaf under the tree in late December.
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