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RegGuheert
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:24 am

RegGuheert on Jun 21, 2014 wrote:
z0ner wrote:"The Dual Carbon Battery...
Here's a more recent article on this battery: Japanese Organic Cotton Battery to Revolutionize Electric Vehicles

This article contains a few interesting quotes:
Industry Leaders Magazine wrote:The Ryden battery has five advantages over lithium-ions as mentioned above. It can charge 20times faster than lithium-ion batteries. It has over 3,000 charge and discharge cycles, making it extremely dependable. It’s easy to manufacture and doesn’t use any rare metals in the making. The Ryden battery is extremely safe and runs at a steady temperature, reducing the risk of fire and explosion hazards. Finally, the battery is 100% recyclable.
They really do portray this as the Holy Grail of batteries.
Industry Leaders Magazine wrote:Not long from now, the Japanese Le Mans auto racing group, Team Taisan, reported its association with PowerJapan Plus to create Ryden batteries for an electric vehicle it hope to race with one day. The first step towards making it possible, they say, is a Ryden-fueled electric go-kart that is presently slated to begin test driving in August. In the PJP-Taisan announcement video, Taisan Team owner Yatsune Chiba says it had long ago attempted to race Tesla electric cars however experienced issues with its batteries overheating.

“We have faced a number of issues with electric vehicle batteries up until now,” says Chiba in the accompanying press announcement. “The Ryden battery from Power Japan Plus is the solution we have been searching for. We will first develop a battery capable of withstanding the rigorous demands of racing, before advancing the technology for use in commercial applications.”
I find it interesting that they use the Tesla battery as the reference that they are working against in the racing arena.

This technology will be interesting to watch to see if it can live up to its promises.
I have looked back at this company a few times over the past few years and there was nothing but hype on their website. Now they actually have data on their website. Here is the data found there (it's all one picture):

Image

This looks like a great potential solution for stationary storage applications.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:29 pm

Via GCC:
GM researchers posit simple model to assist in balancing high energy density vs fast charging in EV design
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180326-gm.html

    . . . We are at a crossroads in terms of balancing two promising technologies: (1) higher energy density (Wh/L) and specific energy (Wh/kg) batteries, relative to today’s conventional graphite/metal-oxide lithium ion systems, and (2) fast-charge capability, defined here as greater than Level 2 charging, or greater than about 20 kW. Currently in the United States, conventional Level 2 charging of 6.6 kW is available in homes and various community locations. In the ideal case, high energy batteries would be able to accommodate fast charge, but two of the most promising high-energy cell technologies, i.e., cells employing Si-enhanced or Li-metal negative electrodes, are problematic insofar as they cannot at present accept fast charging without significant degradation in cell life.

    … The tradeoff between high-energy, as provided by cells with Li-Si and Li metal negative electrodes, and fast-charge capability, which can be obtained from conventional lithium ion cells employing lithiated graphite or titanate negative electrodes, for examples, poses a dilemma in the design of electric vehicles (EVs).


    —Verbrugge and Wampler. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Specific capacity of lithium cathode INCREASES by 5X after 300 cycles!!

Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:13 am

It's pretty incredible data, to say the least:

Image

And this battery contains no cobalt!
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:19 pm

Via IEVS:
SK Innovation Postpones NCM 811 Batteries
https://insideevs.com/sk-innovation-postpones-ncm-811-batteries/

The new NCM 811 batteries (nickel:cobalt:manganese at a ratio of 8:1:1) will enter the plug-in car market later than anticipated.
SK Innovation announced in 2017 that it will start production of punch cells (NCM 811) for plug-in cars in the second half of 2018 in South Korea, which was followed by LG Chem, who promised to release these cells even sooner.

Now, it seems that SK Innovation postponed the NCM 811 (new target is 2019) and will continue with NCM 622 for the Kia Niro EV.

The 811 will be used for energy storage systems though.

Additionally, LG Chem will produce NCM 811 but only in cylindrical format for electric buses.

It seems that the NCM 811 is not yet ready for prime time – the cause could be limited trust from car manufacturers for the new tech – so the introduction will be small-scale. If it works, then orders will come in and production will ramp up. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:35 pm

University of Michigan researchers claim to have achieved a safe, fast elemental Li anode capability using a novel ceramic solid-state electrolyte: Did U Of M Come Up With Solid-State Battery Breakthrough?:
InsideEVs quoting the University of Michigan News wrote:“Up until now, the rates at which you could plate lithium would mean you’d have to charge a lithium metal car battery over 20 to 50 hours (for full power),” Sakamoto said. “With this breakthrough, we demonstrated we can charge the battery in 3 hours or less.

“We’re talking a factor of 10 increase in charging speed compared to previous reports for solid state lithium metal batteries. We’re now on par with lithium ion cells in terms of charging rates, but with additional benefits. ”

That charge/recharge process is what inevitably leads to the eventual death of a lithium ion battery. Repeatedly exchanging ions between the cathode and anode produces visible degradation right out of the box.

In testing the ceramic electrolyte, however, no visible degradation is observed after long term cycling, said Nathan Taylor, a U-M post-doctoral fellow in mechanical engineering.

“We did the same test for 22 days,” he said. “The battery was just the same at the start as it was at the end. We didn’t see any degradation. We aren’t aware of any other bulk solid state electrolyte performing this well for this long.”
This breakthrough reminds me of the presentation Dr. Jeff Dahn made about the issues of Li-Air batteries when compared to Li-ion. I wonder if Dr. Dahn's concerns are still valid or if the issues are now resolve (or mostly resolved).

I suspect one issue that cannot be overcome with this battery is low efficiency. According to Dr. Dahn's presentation, the difference in voltage involved in electroplating and electrostripping means the efficiency of the battery can never reach 80%. Depending on the other specifications, that may or may not be fatal when compared with Li-ion's round-trip efficiency of over 98%. I suspect some applications will require the higher efficiency while some may be able to withstand the additional losses IF some other specification is very compelling.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

LeftieBiker
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:16 pm

Not a candidate for EV use, but for grid storage, with no capacity fade:

https://qz.com/1355672/stacking-concrete-blocks-is-a-surprisingly-efficient-way-to-store-energy/
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:23 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Not a candidate for EV use, but for grid storage, with no capacity fade



I wonder about earthquake safety, especially with low quality concrete.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

GRA
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:41 pm

Via IEVS:
Zinc air battery project claims $100/kwh cost, could be headed to vehicles
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1119299_zinc-air-battery-project-claims-100-kwh-cost-could-be-headed-to-vehicles

. . . The firm NantEnergy has made some new and exceptional claims about its latest zinc air batteries: that they can be reliably recharged thousands of times, that the tech can be extended to cars in the future, and that they already clear the $100-per-kwh manufacturing-cost barrier—right now, in 2018.

NantEnergy’s so-called Air Breathing Rechargeable Storage uses electricity to convert zinc oxide to zinc and oxygen, then the battery takes in air, which oxidizes the zinc, generating electrons.

Its breakthrough in the latest cells, it says, allows the zinc to retain its charge for an extended period, as well as repeat the charge/discharge cycle thousands of times. We've reached out to the company for information on how they've accomplished this and may update this story or cover it in greater depth in the future when we hear back.

The company’s owner, Dr. Soon-Shiong, is a biotech entrepreneur and the owner of the Los Angeles Times and part-owner of the LA Lakers. NantEnergy sees a $50 billion market for the technology—in buses, trains, scooters and, yes, eventually, electric cars; and it intends to start scaling up production in 2019, according to a recent piece in the New York Times.

So far NantEnergy has been targeting grid storage and solar projects, some of which are in Africa. The company already claims that its rechargeable zinc air cells are the sole source of power to 200,000 people and put to use in 1,000 cell tower sites.

The many barriers for zinc air technology up until now included manufacturing feasibility as well as recharging issues. Earlier zinc air batteries could also fail with dirty or contaminated ambient air. Zinc air batteries (any air batteries) have the potential to be lighter than conventional batteries, because the only need one pole. The other is the air. . . .

A report late last year from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, surveying more than 50 companies, found the average cost of an electric-car battery pack to be $209/kwh. In Tesla’s June 5 investor call, Elon Musk said that Tesla expects to hit a cell cost of $100/kwh later this year.

According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, the battery pack in the Tesla Model 3 costs $190 per kwh, while the one used in the Chevrolet Bolt EV, for 2017, was estimated to be $205 per kwh.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

goldbrick
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:39 am

^ this seems too good to be true. Are these commercially available, meaning can I buy one to hook up to my (future) solar system and go off-grid? I don't doubt that they have an installed base already but there must be a reason why Tesla's power wall is getting so much more attention than these NantEnergy modules. Is it cost? longevity? marketing? or ???

tattoogunman
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Re: All "Future" battery technology thread

Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:46 pm

goldbrick wrote:^ this seems too good to be true. Are these commercially available, meaning can I buy one to hook up to my (future) solar system and go off-grid? I don't doubt that they have an installed base already but there must be a reason why Tesla's power wall is getting so much more attention than these NantEnergy modules. Is it cost? longevity? marketing? or ???


I found this https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... -Breathing

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