All "Future" battery technology thread

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EVDRIVER

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This thread is for all PR releases, articles and other sources of info on future battery and energy tech that is not commercially available today. Please post here. Any others that are available today to buy or in the use of EVs please start a new thread :D
 
Fluoride Ion Batteries offer 10x energy density over Lithium Ion

http://www.rdmag.com/News/2011/10/Energy-Batteries-Storage-Materials-Fluoride-ion-battery-stores-ten-times-the-energy-of-lithium-ion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Nekota said:
Fluoride Ion Batteries offer 10x energy density over Lithium Ion

http://www.rdmag.com/News/2011/10/Energy-Batteries-Storage-Materials-Fluoride-ion-battery-stores-ten-times-the-energy-of-lithium-ion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Give the qualifier in the article about the issues with the electrolyte:
from R&D magazine article that said:
Another challenge lies in the further development of the electrolyte: The solid electrolyte applied so far is suited for applications at elevated temperatures only. It is therefore aimed at finding a liquid electrolyte that is suited for use at room temperature.

...I doubt we'll be seeing fluoride batteries anytime soon
 
That´s true.
But it´s like always: researcher develop something new which has, undoubtedly, a very high potential - and the first question is: when will it be on the market... :roll:
And then comes the press and pushes it so that the researchers have rather to defend themselves.

From the work at KIT it seems that they have startedf with a proof-of-principle, which is already remarkable. I guess that there will be follow-ups.

Remember what J. Goodenough said in his first talk about LiFePO4: 'nice material, but unfortunately it doesn´t work...'
 
Picked this up on the Tesla forum. It's a fun video, which talks about liquid batteries:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big-abc-news/smaller-more-powerful-batteries-140855500.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At MIT, Professor Yet-Ming Chiang and his team of researchers are trying to reinvent the rechargeable battery for electric vehicles and and grid storage.

The new lightweight and inexpensive batteries would be half the weight and price of current batteries, and would make refueling as easy as filling a traditional tank with gas. No more waiting overnight for a charge. The new battery relies on an innovative architecture called a semi-solid flow cell, in which solid particles are suspended in a carrier liquid and pumped through the system. Flow-cell batteries have been around for awhile but they use a liquid fuel that is low in energy density and therefore too large and impractical for cars.

The semi-solid flow battery uses a fuel called "Cambridge Crude" designed at MIT, which is 10 times more energy dense than liquid flow-cell, making it compact and lightweight enough for cars. These batteries are also well suited for large scale electricity storage because they be easily scaled up at a low cost.
 
Oh, now THAT is interesting. Best of all is it sounds like it could be slotted into the existing gas station distribution channels with little difficulty. If that pans out, I could totally see the industry rallying around that!
 
It sounds amazing. That kind of batteries would absolutely change the way things work. Surely, there is a question of marketing and how much the big shots are ready to allow them to get to the market.
 
Clarissa said:
It sounds amazing. That kind of batteries would absolutely change the way things work. Surely, there is a question of marketing and how much the big shots are ready to allow them to get to the market.

Personally, I find the ability to charge at home one of the best attributes of current EVs. I would never buy one that couldn't be charged at home, where I had to go to a "battery" station instead.
 
surfingslovak said:
Picked this up on the Tesla forum. It's a fun video, which talks about liquid batteries:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 55500.html

The MIT concept is a flow battery with semi-solid material that is pumped through the battery stack. This means you will need pumps, valves, etc. to control the flow. Scale up could be an issue for use in EVs where available volume is limited. Many years ago, use of a zinc slurry in a flow battery (Zn/air) was considered but the system is more complicated than if the Zn is stationary (for example, in a Zn/air hearing aid battery). The flow battery is more practical for stationary applications, and could be used to charge EVs, but using them on-board to power EVs is more difficult for me to conceive. However, there is some PR from Europe suggesting flow batteries can be used on-board EVs, so we shall see.
 
I guess I screwed up and posted this link in the wrong place the other day. So here it is the right place.......I hope" :oops:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328466.200-air-battery-to-let-electric-cars-outlast-gas-guzzlers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
saywatt said:
I guess I screwed up and posted this link in the wrong place the other day. So here it is the right place.......I hope" :oops:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328466.200-air-battery-to-let-electric-cars-outlast-gas-guzzlers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If it works out it would be a very big deal.
 
saywatt said:
I guess I screwed up and posted this link in the wrong place the other day. So here it is the right place.......I hope" :oops:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328466.200-air-battery-to-let-electric-cars-outlast-gas-guzzlers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Autoblog just ran the story as well, with a nicely redacted lead photo.

lead1nissanleaf628.jpg
 
A 120kW battery pack with 500 mile range that only weighs three pounds. So put ten of them in, 30 pounds, less than the 12V battery weighs, and go from NY to LA and back on a single charge.

Oh but to dream :D

Of course gasoline would still be preferable because power plants use coal :lol:
 
SanDust said:
saywatt said:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328466.200-air-battery-to-let-electric-cars-outlast-gas-guzzlers.html
If it works out it would be a very big deal.
Agreed! I tend not to get too excited about any purported breakthroughs (after all, how long have we been hearing about them), however I do hold high hope for anything from a company with a good track record of delivering on their research - that includes IBM, MIT, the various national labs, etc. Here's hoping...
 
GeekEV said:
Agreed! I tend not to get too excited about any purported breakthroughs (after all, how long have we been hearing about them), however I do hold high hope for anything from a company with a good track record of delivering on their research - that includes IBM, MIT, the various national labs, etc. Here's hoping...

Yes...and for the record, as an IBMer I'm not speaking for IBM, and I'm not in any way involved with this project...but IBM is usually pretty tight lipped about things until things get "real". So I'm pretty optimistic as well.
 
less than 2% of "breakthrus" lead to a consumer end product but if not for those people out there innovating and exploring the possibilities, we would not have a lot of what we enjoy today.

a totally off topic subject but just as amazing is IBM has now experimented successfully with memory consisting of 12 atoms. ya, 12 atoms! will they ever be able to make it commercially viable? who knows but that is how products like Suri start out. just one innovation
 
jkirkebo said:
Clarissa said:
It sounds amazing. That kind of batteries would absolutely change the way things work. Surely, there is a question of marketing and how much the big shots are ready to allow them to get to the market.

Personally, I find the ability to charge at home one of the best attributes of current EVs. I would never buy one that couldn't be charged at home, where I had to go to a "battery" station instead.

Oh, God yes. I've only "missed" maybe 3 or 4 gasoline fill-ups so far (and "missed" is DEFINITELY not the right word!). But I feel so relieved and liberated I've hardly stopped smiling. Unless I get a sudden hankering for beef jerky or lottery tickets I will be quite happy to continue passing stations by.
 
Old news but here is "The 500000 miles battery":

http://epa.gov/oppt/nano/p2docs/casestudy3_house.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Found this while looking for batteries for a solar system. Impressive charge/discharge rate and number of cycles. The energy density is little for EV applications.
 
...and speaking about new modifications to the Li air battery chemistry...
http://energy.gov/americas-next-top-energy-innovator/vorbeck-materials-corp

"Developments by PNNL and Princeton of lithium air batteries incorporating graphene as a cathode material set the highest energy storage capacity ever recorded, 15,000 milliamp hours per gram. The impact for consumer products will be dramatic. Electric cars with a current range of 100 miles after 10 to 12 hours of recharge will have a range of 400 miles."

Don't hold your breath, but our kids might see this.

Reddy
 
http://www.thechargingpoint.com/new...e-electric-car-could-have-220-mile-range.html

In the build up to the unveiling of the 2012 Zoe small car at next month’s Geneva Motor Show, French magazine BFM Business reports that Renault will release a new version in 2014, with a maximum range of 220 miles. That’s more than double the range of the 2012 Zoe's 100 miles, which is also the current market standard.

An interesting advantage of the "lease the battery" and quick swap battery approach is that with the buy-the-battery model you probably wouldn't want to announce that an upcoming model will have twice the range of your current model, for fear of people waiting for the new model but it's ok if you are leasing the battery and they can swap-up to the new battery when it arrives.

Still just a rumor, we'll see what comes out in Geneva.
 
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