Portable level 2 EVSE : Help needed commenting on model code

evnow · Jul 3, 2010

Puget sound region is publishing a model code to be adopted by all cities in the region (and may get adopted in other areas as well).

http://www.psrc.org/assets/4126/Final_Draft_Model_Appendices_070210.pdf

The draft says level 2 evse needs to be hardwired. Can someone point me to the exact language of NEC that refutes this ? I plan to formally send comments on this before the meeting and time permitting attend the meeting (looks unlikely).

Requires a dedicated 40-amp or higher breaker on a 240-volt circuit with a GFI, such as those required for ovens or dryers. A wall-mounted charging station assembly will be required. (EV charging stations are “continuous load” devices as defined by the National Electrical Code. The contact points for typical 240 volt outlets, such as those used for dryers or ovens, are not designed for continuous loads, or for repetitive plugging and unplugging as would be normal with EV charging. Plugging a vehicle directly into a 240-volt outlet is considered hazardous and is not allowed under any circumstances.

mitch672 · Jul 3, 2010

evnow said:
Plugging a vehicle directly into a 240-volt outlet is considered hazardous and is not allowed under any circumstances.

Gee, someone should tell the UK and the rest of the world they are in EXTREME DANGER WILL ROBINSON

Pure horse manure. The rest of the world has been plugging "continuos load" devices into 240V outlets for a very long time. An oven is also a continous load, ever cook a 30 # turkey? that takes a long time, I guess ovens should be hardwired as well. As for the outlet contacts, they may have a point, but how often will the charging cord be removed from the outlet? not very often. A "disconnect" switch can be installed next to the outlet to de-enrgize it, or a circuit built into the charging cord, which is what the std 120V EVSE portable cord will have.... The VEHICLE end would be removed, yes, but not the end that would plug into the wall, unless you took it with you to travel... This whole EVSE requirment is way overdone, people have been charging EVs for over a decade, and not too many have killed themselves yet.

EVDRIVER · Jul 3, 2010

mitch672 said:
evnow said:

Plugging a vehicle directly into a 240-volt outlet is considered hazardous and is not allowed under any circumstances.

Click to expand...

Gee, someone should tell the UK and the rest of the world they are in EXTREME DANGER WILL ROBINSON

Pure horse manure. The rest of the world has been plugging "continuos load" devices into 240V outlets for a very long time. An oven is also a continous load, ever cook a 30 # turkey? that takes a long time, I guess ovens should be hardwired as well. As for the outlet contacts, they may have a point, but how often will the charging cord be removed from the outlet? not very often. A "disconnect" switch can be installed next to the outlet to de-enrgize it, or a circuit built into the charging cord, which is what the std 120V EVSE portable cord will have.... The VEHICLE end would be removed, yes, but not the end that would plug into the wall, unless you took it with you to travel... This whole EVSE requirment is way overdone, people have been charging EVs for over a decade, and not too many have killed themselves yet.

Don't forget that even US residential construction sites have 240 cords all over the floors, stairs, etc to 240 table saws and the like, that explains the high cost of workers comp. Every extension cord in every situation in Europe is 240, my god. I hear the biggest killer of kids and pets in Europe are lamp cords and that one out of every three European families looses a loved one to lamp cords and kitchen appliances, it's amazing we don't hear about this more often. I would bet there is only a 50% chance of infants making it to age three there without first removing all corded devices from the home. I'm so glad to be an American with only oils spills to worry about :shock:

evnow · Jul 3, 2010

From the other thread what I can find is ...

http://www.madkatz.com/ev/nec1999Article625.html

C. Equipment Construction

625-13. Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. Electric vehicle supply equipment rated at 125 volt, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes or part of a system identified and listed as suitable for the purpose and meeting the requirements of Sections 625-18. 625-19. and 625-29 shall be permitted to be cord and plug connected. All other electric vehicle supply equipment shall be permanently connected and fastened in place. This equipment shall have no exposed live parts.

So let us look at these sections ...

625-18. Interlock. Electric vehicle supply equipment shall be provided with an interlock that de-energizes the electric vehicle connector and its cable whenever the electric connector is uncoupled from the electric vehicle. An interlock shall not be required for portable cord- and plug connected electric vehicle supply equipment intended for connection to receptacle outlets rated 125 volts, single phase, 15 and 20 amperes.

625-19. Automatic De-energization of Cable. The electric vehicle supply equipment or the cable connector combination of the equipment shall be provided with an automatic means to de-energize the cable conductors and electric vehicle connector upon exposure to strain that could result in either cable rupture or separation of the cable from the electric connector and exposure of live parts. Automatic means to de-energize the cable conductors and electric vehicle connector shall not be required for portable cord- and plug-connected electric vehicle supply equipment intended for connection to receptacle outlets rated at 115 volts, single phase, 15 and 20 amperes.

625-29. Indoor Sites. Indoor sites shall include, but not be limited to, integral, attached, and detached residential
garages; enclosed and underground parking structures; repair and nonrepair commercial garages; and agricultural build-
ings.
...

29 goes on to detail the location requirements.

Is this it ?

DeaneG · Jul 3, 2010

IMHO it would appear that as long as the EVSE is located indoors, it can be plug-connected by the preceeding code.

LEAFer · Jul 3, 2010

evnow said:
Requires a dedicated 40-amp or higher breaker on a 240-volt circuit with a GFI, such as those required for ovens or dryers. A wall-mounted charging station assembly will be required. (EV charging stations are “continuous load” devices as defined by the National Electrical Code. The contact points for typical 240 volt outlets, such as those used for dryers or ovens, are not designed for continuous loads, or for repetitive plugging and unplugging as would be normal with EV charging. Plugging a vehicle directly into a 240-volt outlet is considered hazardous and is not allowed under any circumstances.

Click to expand...

Ok ... JuiceBar ... a little excessive, and not recommended for amateurs, but if used prudently by a single EV ?

garygid · Jul 4, 2010

Unfortunately local codes can go beyond the state or NEC.

So, that section 625.13 is the correct NEC section.

You might gather some info on RV Parks in the local area allowing RVs to plug into 50-amp 240v, even OUTSIDE.

I suspect that accidental outside 240v shock-related deaths are very few, perhaps totally insignificant, even with RVs.

Compared to flu or traffic related deaths, the electrical deaths ... might even be hard to find.

garygid · Jul 4, 2010

First look, I Googled:
USA accidental death statistics

found approx.
2.4 million deats total with about 5% "accidental", which includes police shooting people.

The "accidental" number, around 120,000 is broken into categories like traffic (about 45,000) and down to a category of about 775 deaths, but no "electrical" (120 or 240) category listed.

garygid · Jul 4, 2010

Adding "electrical" and ignoring "work related" (cranes hitting overhead power lines, 33 deaths), I found a 1995 pdf with 230 electrical deaths.

About 7 related to refrigerator/freezers, 14 for lamps, only 5 in the "other" category, with no RV numbers even listed.

Ladders are "dangerous".

So, the numbers are either VERY small, un-reported, mis-reported, or basically non-existant.

evnow · Jul 4, 2010

Thanks, Gary. This should help.

garygid · Jul 4, 2010

Yes, there seems to be little (or no) real data to back up these "safety concerns", for 240v plug-in, or for "properly cautious" Blind people being killed (or even injured) by "silent" EVs.

Of course, there are "the un-cautious" sighted people that just walk out into traffic, or operate cranes, or carry ladders, or stick knives or forks into toasters ... but SOMETHING has to do the "natural selection", right?

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