mtndrew1
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Re: CHAdeMO QCs 8549. Japan 5418 Europe 1838 USA 1238 Others

Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:48 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
mtndrew1 wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:I actually don't have the energy to point out, yet again, that the CHAdeMO protocol is NOT the crazy Yazaki plug that everybody associates with CHAdeMO:

http://www.chademo.com/wp/chademo-connectors/


Be that as it may, it's what most US CHAdeMO users experience and it's awful.

Edit: Good lord! I looked at your link and there are TWELVE different CHAdeMO connectors! Twelve! They should add doing the hokey-pokey at the end of the charge session as part of the disconnect process just to put a cherry on top. Design by committee at is finest.


No, there is a CHAdeMO standard that currently has twelve (or more) different choices of human interface. They ALL plug into the same CHAdeMO inlet.

Having choices is what a mature standard has. CCS has a REMA produced plug. That's it.


Users largely don't care about protocol, they care about interface. This is why USB won the PC interface wars, why Apple won the MP3 and smartphone wars, and why Google won the search wars.

If I can be assured that a CCS car has exactly one method of connection and disconnection no matter who built the car or the charger or the charge connector, I see that as a massive selling point as a consumer.

I'll be honest, I nearly called roadside assistance the first time I used a CHAdeMO charger. Like the other poster, it took me the better part of 15 minutes to get it disconnected. As I was fumbling around swearing at the thing it didn't matter if it was Yazaki's fault or Kia's fault or Sumitomo's fault or Nissan's fault. It was just bad. It remains bad.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: CHAdeMO QCs 8549. Japan 5418 Europe 1838 USA 1238 Others

Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:05 pm

Sondy132001 wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:I actually don't have the energy to point out, yet again, that the CHAdeMO protocol is NOT the crazy Yazaki plug that everybody associates with CHAdeMO:

http://www.chademo.com/wp/chademo-connectors/



I imagine it's on the company who uses them on their machines/chargers, but not going to lie, it took me 15 mins to figure that HUNK OF JUNK out the first time I came across one ack


The original Yazaki was worse... Three levers. HORRENDOUS design, but Yazaki is a huge company, so that's what the early CHAdeMO charger manufacturers bought.

In those days, they were mostly concerned with quickly sucking up as much grant / tax money as possible, so Yazaki was able to charge $3500 for the privilege of getting one. Blink was offering their charger for $80,000.

Over $100 MILLION of federal tax money was sucked up by Blink / Ecotality alone.

The market is quite different today.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: CHAdeMO QCs 8549. Japan 5418 Europe 1838 USA 1238 Others

Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:21 pm

mtndrew1 wrote:Users largely don't care about protocol, they care about interface. This is why USB won the PC interface wars, why Apple won the MP3 and smartphone wars, and why Google won the search wars.

If I can be assured that a CCS car has exactly one method of connection and disconnection no matter who built the car or the charger or the charge connector, I see that as a massive selling point as a consumer.

I'll be honest, I nearly called roadside assistance the first time I used a CHAdeMO charger. Like the other poster, it took me the better part of 15 minutes to get it disconnected. As I was fumbling around swearing at the thing it didn't matter if it was Yazaki's fault or Kia's fault or Sumitomo's fault or Nissan's fault. It was just bad. It remains bad.



You actually DON'T know that every CCS plug will be the same in the future. With only one choice, it's currently the same. But, should CCS actually become more than an "also-ran", other companies will also produce plugs and other components that are CCS compatible. Yes, while unlikely, some company could screw up the UI on a CCS plug as badly as the first generation Yazaki CHAdeMO plug.

It's unlikely that a new company would introduce a poor UI CHAdeMO design plug today, simply because there is competition. Yazaki, like REMA to CCS, didn't have any competition in the early days.

We just went over 5000 charge events with the Fuji Electric charger at San Juan Capistrano, California. The first DC charger on the ChargePoint network. Guess what? Nobody complains about the plug!!!!

Why? Because it's the Japanese Aviation Company designed plug, and not the horrendous Yazaki. Checkout the instructions on how to use that plug, and I think you'll be amazed that it's "just like CCS", except before CCS even existed !!!

http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-content/up ... dure02.pdf

So, in summary, what individual companies do with a standard is entirely up to them. I have bad news for you... CCS isn't "Apple"... Tesla Supercharger is.


5467 Worldwide (6 March 2015)
8549 Worldwide (31 May 2015)

The number of CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers installed up to today is 8549.
-- (Japan 5418 Europe 1838 USA 1238 Others 55) last update 2015.05.31)

About 300% more CHAdeMO chargers were added in the world in the past three months than ALL THE CCS IN THE WORLD.

GRA
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Re: CHAdeMO QCs 8549. Japan 5418 Europe 1838 USA 1238 Others

Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:56 am

Via ievs.com:
1,000 Combo Chargers In Europe!
http://insideevs.com/1000-combo-chargers-europe/

1,008 to be exact, versus 150 one year ago. These are, of course, CCS-2. Per plugshare, there appear to be 219 CCS-1 in the U.S. now (114 in California, vs. 252 CHAdeMO, and AFAIA all of the CCS put in have been dual standard, leaving a net of 138 solely CHAdeMO here), plus 15 in Canada. Oh, and the first claimed CCS that I'm aware of at a VW dealership has just appeared in Eugene, Oregon. That might be a mistake as no one has yet checked in, and it could be an L2 like the one at my local dealership. OTOH, it is right on I-5, and VW/BMW did say they were going to put them every 50 miles or so along it, so maybe this is the first of that. If correct, this is the first new CCS in Oregon in quite some time, as they'd been stalled at 7 for months. There are at least a couple at BMW facilities on the east coast as well.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: CHAdeMO QCs 8549. Japan 5418 Europe 1838 USA 1238 Others

Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:41 pm

Via ievs.com:
Nissan, BMW To Roll Out Network Of Fast Chargers In South Africa
http://insideevs.com/nissan-bmw-roll-ne ... th-africa/

These will be dual CHAdeMO/CCS-2.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: CHAdeMO QCs 8549. Japan 5418 Europe 1838 USA 1238 Others 55

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:10 am

Good news for most LEAF owners:

CHAdeMO celebrates double achievements: 2000 chargers in the US and 4000 in Europe

Together with Asia and the rest of the world there are over 13 500 CHAdeMO chargers globally, a strong 35% growth in 1 year

CHAdeMO is IEC/EN/IEEE standards and expands its global reach, adding 8 countries to its map of CHAdeMO chargers in 1 year

150kW chargers expected in Europe in 2017


Stepping into its 8th year of its existence, the association celebrates simultaneous reaching of 2000 publicly available CHAdeMOs in the US, 4000 in Europe and 13 500 globally, which means a 35% year-on-year growth. The historic milestones come amid a growing awareness of the role electric mobility plays in the reduction of CO2 emissions from transport globally. To date, almost 600 000 CHAdeMO-compatible EVs and plug-in hybrids around the world have found their owners.

Accompanying this growth in vehicles and charging opportunities is the expansion of CHAdeMO’s reach worldwide. Eight new countries were added to CHAdeMO map in 2016. EV drivers in Afghanistan, China, Colombia, Croatia, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Ukraine can now benefit from CHAdeMO fast charging, bringing the batteries of their EVs from 0 to 80% in 30 min...

https://www.chademo.com/chademo-celebra ... ge-points/

But still not one CHAdeMO site that I can use, on "the electric Highway" (I-5) on the ~300 miles between Sacramento California and the Ashland Oregon...
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webeleafowners
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Re: 2000 publicly available CHAdeMOs in the US, 4000 in Europe and 13 500 globally

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:24 am

British Columbia finished phase one of their 30 CHADEMO sites install program last fall. Phase two has been approved, the site selection done and installation should be finished by summer 2018.
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edatoakrun
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Re: As of 2017, 17,700 CHAdeMO chargers, 775,000 CHAdeMO compatible cars worldwide

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:40 pm

As CHAdeMO continues to develop as the de-facto world DC standard, it might be useful to consider how much more rapidly the public DC infrastructure would have developed in the USA, had other BEV manufactures not put their own interests first, with their desires to promote alternate/and or proprietary standards.

We might already have been able to buy BEVs unencumbered by the expense, complexity and weight of on-board chargers, knowing that we could buy (and sell, as our needs changed) two-way charge/discharge devices, all using the same standard DC port for home/portable use, and that every public charge point, whatever kW rate was available, would similarly use the same DC standard.

That might still happen, but I will probably take a step backward with my next BEV, to the silly SAE combo charge port, and I won't be pleased about that.

CHAdeMO 2017: another good year of great growth for CHAdeMO

...CHAdeMO Association closed yet another very successful year in 2017. Not only have all fronts of the business of its members and collaborators grown, but it has also successfully consolidated its position as the international market leader.

New chargers sprang up everywhere in the world, and the number of CHAdeMO chargers grew by 30% last year, reaching a global total number of 17 700. An even bigger rate of increase was seen in the European region, where a 50% growth took place in 2017, ending the year with 6 060 charge points across Europe. Countries like Norway, Germany, United Kingdom, France and Ukraine went above and beyond with the expansion of their charging infrastructure.

In parallel with chargers, EV sales has boomed last year thanks to a growing awareness of the public on the utility and eco friendliness of electric cars and the increased market offers from the carmakers. As of 2017, 775 000 CHAdeMO compatible cars are on the roads, out of which 330 000 found a home in Europe...

https://www.chademo.com/chademo-2017-an ... r-chademo/

Looks like CHAdeMO was thinking ahead, and there was a there was a reason it made the plug so big...

CHAdeMO releases the latest version of the protocol enabling up to 400KW

CHAdeMO Association released its 400kW protocol (CHAdeMO 2.0: 400A x 1kV) to its members. This new version enables up to 1kV, paving the way towards large commercial vehicles such as trucks and buses. It can also incorporate a plug-and-charge (PnC) functionality.


On 29 May 2018, the Association’s Specification WG has released the new version of CHAdeMO to its Regular members.

CHAdeMO’s original protocol was released in 2009. Since then, the Association has amended the standard a couple of times to incorporate the required changes through its almost a decade-long in-market experience, but this new version is the first major protocol revision since CHAdeMO 1.0 was published in 2012.

CHAdeMO has already enabled in its Version 1.2 (published in March 2017) high-power charging up to 200kW (400A x 500V). CHAdeMO 2.0 now allows for up to 400kW, making high-voltage charging up to 1kV possible using liquid-cooled cable assemblies (still with the exact same CHAdeMO plug shape) or via pantographs. In case of charging with the plug, backward compatibility is ensured, meaning the high-power CHAdeMO chargers can feed power to both the current EVs as well as the upcoming EVs with higher-power charging capability.

CHAdeMO’s Secretary General Dave Yoshida said: “The publication of the new version of the protocol is part of our broader efforts to expand the CHAdeMO protocol to a wider variety of vehicles, including trucks and buses. With the CAN-based communication, it will be a relatively simple but reliable option to charge large commercial vehicles and other industrial applications. Combining these vehicles with the V2X technology, for which CHAdeMO is the only enabler today amongst the major international charging standards with readily available products in the market, fleet owners would benefit from an even larger set of options to rethink the TCO (total cost of ownership) of their vehicles, as these vehicles can not only charge but discharge electricity and support the Grid.”

The new version of CHAdeMO is also compatible with a CHAdeMO plug-and-charge (PnC) functionality that will make the EV users lives even easier. With the CHAdeMO PnC functionality, the users will have to simply insert the CHAdeMO plug into the EV’s inlet, and the authentication and billing will be done automatically...

https://www.chademo.com/chademo-release ... -to-400kw/
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GRA
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Re: As of 2017, 17,700 CHAdeMO chargers, 775,000 CHAdeMO compatible cars worldwide

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:53 pm

OTOH, their lead is rapidly narrowing. via IEVS:
EV Sales By Fast Charging Standards; The “Big 3” Converge – 2017 Edition
https://insideevs.com/ev-sales-by-fast-charging-standards-the-big-3-converge-2017-edition/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: As of 2017, 17,700 CHAdeMO chargers, 775,000 CHAdeMO compatible cars worldwide

Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:07 pm

ChadeMo is moribund in the US and Europe.
IIRC, about 200 new stations were installed in the US last year. For comparison, Telsa plans that amount PER WEEK in 2018.

And the installations are mostly as an afterthought 50 kW appendage to a CCS installation.
As CCS matures and power delivery improves I expect ChadeMo to continue to be a single, 50 kW sop to inter-operability. AKA it is there, but it sucks. And it is hard to say how long the CCS installers will even bother with their token ChadeMo.

As for 400 kW ChadeMo ? Perhaps in Japan.
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Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
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