EVGO, why?

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dallasmay said:
tzzhc4 said:
On top of all this you don't own the EVSE after the 3 years is up.
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I spoke with a representative of EVgo and he said that you could cancel at any time, and the fee for doing so was $25/month remaining on contract. And if you wanted to keep the charger they would charge you $350 dollars for it at that time. Or, if you sign up again, they will upgrade you to the latest and greatest charging stations. I don't think that's a bad deal. As I said, it's roughly the same as financing the charger.
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I bought my Leaf, took delivery already and I will say the trickle charger isn't bad just depends how much you plan on driving every day. I am sending my charger in for an upgrade next week (307 bucks and you get your trickle charger upgraded to 240V charging at 16A, 130% improvement over 120V trickle at 12A). There are many other options:

http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessories

http://evseupgrade.com/

Heck cash and carry with AV would save you 1000-1200 bucks. If you aren't getting your Leaf for a while Leviton's EVSE should be out along with a few others. The EVSE is basically a plug and signally device. The EVSE doesn't change the energy in any way, it isn't a charger it is just a plug and a safety mechanism (only lets electricity through when the car tells it to).
 
I got this reply from EVGO the other day when I asked if they would either offer a mobile only plan or a "pay at the pump" option:

"Yes, we are developing a 'pay at the station' option but it will likely not be ready until early next year."
 
tzzhc4 said:
I got this reply from EVGO the other day when I asked if they would either offer a mobile only plan or a "pay at the pump" option:

"Yes, we are developing a 'pay at the station' option but it will likely not be ready until early next year."
Click to expand...

I don't mean to keep defending the company, if I am defending it, but don't expect to be happy with the pay-per-use charging prices. The way accounting systems like these work is that they NEED you in locked into a contract. That way they can put the entire amount of your 3 years of payments in their income bracket when you sign up. It's weird, but that's the accounting game they play. That means they are really not going to want you to just pay-per-use, and will likely price their chargers in such a way that they can make a case that you should just sign up for the monthly fee.

For example, if the average EV driver uses a fast charger 5 times a month (I'm making numbers up here), and their lowest monthly rate is $50/month, then you can expect that they are going to charge you $10/use. At least, that's what I would expect. Maybe the market will go in another direction.
 
dallasmay said:
tzzhc4 said:
I got this reply from EVGO the other day when I asked if they would either offer a mobile only plan or a "pay at the pump" option:

"Yes, we are developing a 'pay at the station' option but it will likely not be ready until early next year."
Click to expand...

I don't mean to keep defending the company, if I am defending it, but don't expect to be happy with the pay-per-use charging prices. The way accounting systems like these work is that they NEED you in locked into a contract. That way they can put the entire amount of your 3 years of payments in their income bracket when you sign up. It's weird, but that's the accounting game they play. That means they are really not going to want you to just pay-per-use, and will likely price their chargers in such a way that they can make a case that you should just sign up for the monthly fee.
Click to expand...
Are you talking accounting systems or accounting principles?
 
at the national average $0.11 per kwh the L3 charge will cost $2.22 in electricity, plus profits and equipment depreciation.. so maybe $5 for a 30 min charge?.. is that too much?
 
Herm said:
at the national average $0.11 per kwh the L3 charge will cost $2.22 in electricity, plus profits and equipment depreciation.. so maybe $5 for a 30 min charge?.. is that too much?
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That would be awesome. And in a world where prices make sense, I would say that's a reasonable price. However, typically companies set their prices about 2x more than what I think would be a fair price. Like I said, I sure don't know where the market will set the price for charging in the future, but I'm not holding my breath for something that good. (But we can hope. If it was set that low, I would buy out the remainder of my contract -which is why I doubt it will be set that low.)
 
shay said:
dallasmay said:
tzzhc4 said:
I got this reply from EVGO the other day when I asked if they would either offer a mobile only plan or a "pay at the pump" option:

"Yes, we are developing a 'pay at the station' option but it will likely not be ready until early next year."
Click to expand...

I don't mean to keep defending the company, if I am defending it, but don't expect to be happy with the pay-per-use charging prices. The way accounting systems like these work is that they NEED you in locked into a contract. That way they can put the entire amount of your 3 years of payments in their income bracket when you sign up. It's weird, but that's the accounting game they play. That means they are really not going to want you to just pay-per-use, and will likely price their chargers in such a way that they can make a case that you should just sign up for the monthly fee.
Click to expand...
Are you talking accounting systems or accounting principles?
Click to expand...


Eh, you say potato, I say potato ...wait a minute, oh forget it.
 
Herm said:
at the national average $0.11 per kwh the L3 charge will cost $2.22 in electricity, plus profits and equipment depreciation.. so maybe $5 for a 30 min charge?.. is that too much?
Click to expand...

I have my AV L2 in the garage, but would love some L3s in San Antonio.
I'm thinking that at $5 I would use quick chargers maybe once or twice a month, at $10 I would use it less, at $20 I would use it in emergencies. When I use them, I probably would not stay the whole 1/2 hour - just get enough for 15 miles or so, unless I'm shopping.
So I don't know if that makes it a profitable venture for them or not.
 
Herm said:
at the national average $0.11 per kwh the L3 charge will cost $2.22 in electricity, plus profits and equipment depreciation.. so maybe $5 for a 30 min charge?.. is that too much?
Click to expand...

I would totally pay 5 bucks for quick charging. It isn't something I intend to use frequently since I want to get the longest possible life out of my battery but having it as an option just in case or for special occasions (date night or whatever) it would be cool.
 
dallasmay said:
I don't mean to keep defending the company, if I am defending it, but don't expect to be happy with the pay-per-use charging prices. The way accounting systems like these work is that they NEED you in locked into a contract. That way they can put the entire amount of your 3 years of payments in their income bracket when you sign up. It's weird, but that's the accounting game they play. That means they are really not going to want you to just pay-per-use, and will likely price their chargers in such a way that they can make a case that you should just sign up for the monthly fee.

For example, if the average EV driver uses a fast charger 5 times a month (I'm making numbers up here), and their lowest monthly rate is $50/month, then you can expect that they are going to charge you $10/use. At least, that's what I would expect. Maybe the market will go in another direction.
Click to expand...

Not sure I follow what you are saying. Sounds like you mean to say "business model" instead of "accounting system". Maybe people are ignorant enough to not do the math and buy into EVGO's sales pitch and lock themselves into longterm contracts. People certainly still shop at Rent-A-Center and such so maybe I am assuming people are too smart. My opinion is most EV users, at least in the first year or two, are savvy enough to not and EVGO will need to change the way they do things.

I can't image people will use their facilities for much other than emergencies if they do 10 bucks a quick charge. Also not sure I see the average user doing 5 quick charges a month. I get around most of Dallas with no quick charging already with little more than planning. If someone's use of their EV depends heavily on regular quick charging they probably shouldn't be driving an EV and would be better served with a high efficiency diesel.
 
Has anyone been convinced to use EVGO on this thread which I think was the original intent of it? There are a few supporters of it on this thread; however, one of them has cancelled or is about to cancel his leaf order.
 
shay said:
Has anyone been convinced to use EVGO on this thread which I think was the original intent of it? There are a few supporters of it on this thread; however, one of them has cancelled or is about to cancel his leaf order.
Click to expand...

No.
 
Yes, we have been convinced of EVGO. To make EVGO attractive I think you have to fall into one or more of these categories:

1) You will use most of the Leaf's capacity at least every weekday thus requiring a full charge (which EVGO pays for on the top plan)
2) You would rather not pay for the charging station in the same year you buy the Leaf (so you essentially rent one)
3) Your commute or weekend travel is long enough that sometimes (or all the time) you need access to charging stations due to random errands, weather, traffic and such that require extending your range
4) You want the peace of mind of having charging stations especially during the first few years as you get to know your Leaf

As it is my family lines up with all of these and the finances are close to a wash or perhaps slightly in our favor depending on how often we use the stations.

The only snag is that we too are in a co-op so the question of getting reimbursed for home electricity is still being worked. So it's not a done deal and if EVGO can't figure this out we may end up waiting for them to roll out a plan that does not include the home charger, or a pay-per-use plan, or dropping them altogether.
However, we have been told that they are working with the co-ops and alternative options to allow them to service co-op customers. From what I can tell this is more of a technological accounting hurdle than anything else so I am hopeful they'll get this resolved in time for our Leaf.
 
tzzhc4 said:
I can't image people will use their facilities for much other than emergencies if they do 10 bucks a quick charge. Also not sure I see the average user doing 5 quick charges a month. I get around most of Dallas with no quick charging already with little more than planning. If someone's use of their EV depends heavily on regular quick charging they probably shouldn't be driving an EV and would be better served with a high efficiency diesel.
Click to expand...

The business case for any commercial L3 charging network is very marginal at best.. most people will just charge at home and most people dont drive enough to run out of range in a Leaf. L3 networks must be bundled with something else for it to make sense, restaurants, shopping centers ect, so EVGO must make their money from the home L2 EVSE. Maybe after we have a couple million BEVs in the wild.
 
Herm said:
The business case for any commercial L3 charging network is very marginal at best.. most people will just charge at home and most people dont drive enough to run out of range in a Leaf. L3 networks must be bundled with something else for it to make sense, restaurants, shopping centers ect, so EVGO must make their money from the home L2 EVSE. Maybe after we have a couple million BEVs in the wild.
Click to expand...

Agreed on the destinations being the draw. I actually went to "Whiskey Cake" because I heard they had chargers and were handing Blink RFID cards Turned out to be a nice place, which a good bar and good food.
 
SierraQ said:
Yes, we have been convinced of EVGO. To make EVGO attractive I think you have to fall into one or more of these categories:

1) You will use most of the Leaf's capacity at least every weekday thus requiring a full charge (which EVGO pays for on the top plan)
2) You would rather not pay for the charging station in the same year you buy the Leaf (so you essentially rent one)
3) Your commute or weekend travel is long enough that sometimes (or all the time) you need access to charging stations due to random errands, weather, traffic and such that require extending your range
4) You want the peace of mind of having charging stations especially during the first few years as you get to know your Leaf

As it is my family lines up with all of these and the finances are close to a wash or perhaps slightly in our favor depending on how often we use the stations.

The only snag is that we too are in a co-op so the question of getting reimbursed for home electricity is still being worked. So it's not a done deal and if EVGO can't figure this out we may end up waiting for them to roll out a plan that does not include the home charger, or a pay-per-use plan, or dropping them altogether.
However, we have been told that they are working with the co-ops and alternative options to allow them to service co-op customers. From what I can tell this is more of a technological accounting hurdle than anything else so I am hopeful they'll get this resolved in time for our Leaf.
Click to expand...

When I last spoke to EVGO they made it sound like working with co-ops wouldn't happen so I am surprised to hear they have changed their tune and curious as to the outcome.

Check out Blink and Chargepoint. They both have more charging locations in Dallas than EVGO does and neither requires a 3 year subscription. And there are all the Nissan dealerships (some are even available after hours). Also there are other EVSE not just buying from AV and likely will be more available in the near future.
 
tzzhc4 said:
When I last spoke to EVGO they made it sound like working with co-ops wouldn't happen so I am surprised to hear they have changed their tune and curious as to the outcome.
Click to expand...
I think it depends on who you talk to. As I said I think it is a technological hurdle (co-op accounting systems won't talk to EVGO systems). What I exactly heard was the progress is slow (but not necessarily abandoned) so they are exploring alternatives. This was last month. In the end I expect they will invent some non-ideal but workable solution. There is a lot of Texas under co-ops.

In any case our Leaf delivery (that is, next postponement notice) is in a few months... :? So there is time to work this issue out.

tzzhc4 said:
Check out Blink and Chargepoint. They both have more charging locations in Dallas than EVGO does and neither requires a 3 year subscription. And there are all the Nissan dealerships (some are even available after hours). Also there are other EVSE not just buying from AV and likely will be more available in the near future.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm just beginning to realize that there are some alternatives. They certainly aren't well published but people on this forum have mapped them out so that helps. The big draw with EVGO is the L3 charging (from what I can see they are the ONLY L3 charging). That would be so perfect as I could just stop for 5 minutes to get enough juice to go home as opposed to much longer on these L2s.

I'm somewhat in agreement with EVGOs primary value-add argument that L2 chargers are not as useful except at home or work. No one wants to sit at a dealership for 2 hours waiting for a decent charge. Well, maybe if a Starbucks is nearby. ;)
 
SierraQ said:
Thanks. I'm just beginning to realize that there are some alternatives. They certainly aren't well published but people on this forum have mapped them out so that helps. The big draw with EVGO is the L3 charging (from what I can see they are the ONLY L3 charging). That would be so perfect as I could just stop for 5 minutes to get enough juice to go home as opposed to much longer on these L2s.

I'm somewhat in agreement with EVGOs primary value-add argument that L2 chargers are not as useful except at home or work. No one wants to sit at a dealership for 2 hours waiting for a decent charge. Well, maybe if a Starbucks is nearby. ;)
Click to expand...

Carstations.com is a good source. I know a lot of people try and update/add stations as they find them (I do at least).

http://carstations.com/
 
davewill said:
Isn't there ALWAYS a Starbucks nearby?
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I was at a charger in the middle of nowhere near Sherman, TX and there was a Starbucks next door. :)
 

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