Nissan Exec Talks About the Batteries and It's Expected Life

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Bassman

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Dec 6, 2010
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Angels Camp, CA
Nissan VP. explains the LEAF batteries and Nissan's expected life.
http://nissan-leaf.net/2011/08/07/video-nissans-simon-sproule-explains-nissan-leaf-battery-technology/
Take away from the video:

1) 10 Year expected overall life for battery pack
2) 5 Years at 12,000 miles/year - 80% capacity remaining and
3) Nissan doesn't expect to replace the whole pack, just a few modules at hundreds of dollars per module rather than thousands for a whole pack
 
This is making my 4 year lease look even more advantageous... 75-80 percent is the minimum I could tolerate and still have the range I need to use the car in my daily travels...

Bassman said:
5 Years at 12,000 miles/year - 80% capacity remaining
 
Bassman said:
5 Years at 12,000 miles/year - 80% capacity remaining
Wow, so we went from 3% to 2.5% and now back up to 4% annual capacity fade over the course of the past 16 months. While it's refreshing to see someone to go on record like this, and to hear that the repair cost should be reasonable, Nissan is certainly anything but upfront with their data. This really needs to change. The Leaf is a major investment and they cannot change their story every couple of months. I'm disappointed.
 
mogur said:
This is making my 4 year lease look even more advantageous... 75-80 percent is the minimum I could tolerate and still have the range I need to use the car in my daily travels...

I'm expecting the capacity degradation to be inverse to public charging infrastructure roll out so I'm not too concerned about this. And in 5 years my now 11 year old daughter wants this car so a limited range might be a benefit!
 
OK, I think this seals the deal on deciding to lease Vs purchase. Mark Perry's "I expect most first year buyers to lease" has been haunting me for over a year. Obviously he knows something about the battery life that I don't.
So this confirms it. The battery life is functionally 5 years. (yes I know it will go on holding a charge at some increasingly lower capacity for many more years, but that's really missing the point.)
So adding all the factors together - 100 mile range is really about 75-80 in other than perfect conditions, 5 year degradation, puts range at about 60 miles, (probably about 45 miles in our frozen winters), no capacity warranty on the battery - there is no hope that this car will meet my needs past 5-6 years. I have always bought (usually with cash), but that presumes the car will last at least 8 years. Will lease for 3-4 years and hope for a better battery in Gen2.
 
In this article: http://cleantechnica.com/2011/08/09/nissan-explains-leaf-battery-video/ it is suggested that the battery life will fall off initially more than after possibly a year or two. So lets say that in the first 2 years battery capacity drops off to 90% and then for the next 8 years it drops off about 2% / year. Does that make a difference to leasing or buying?

Also has the other question posed in the article about the intitial cost of the battery ever been answered?
 
Nissan has never said how much it pays for the batteries, but they have priced the replacement modules at the dealership parts dept, perhaps there is a discount if you buy a whole pack.. I believe mechanics get a 50%, or perhaps 30%, discount when they buy parts.
 
If it follows typical automotive parts pricing, dealers get 40 percent off and jobbers (independent mechanics, shops, and the like) get 20 percent off from the dealer.

Herm said:
Nissan has never said how much it pays for the batteries, but they have priced the replacement modules at the dealership parts dept, perhaps there is a discount if you buy a whole pack.. I believe mechanics get a 50%, or perhaps 30%, discount when they buy parts.
 
I watched the same video a couple of days ago and I don't share the same pessimistic view as some others here. He was very clear that:

1) His comments/numbers leaned towards the bottom end of "average", or they wouldn't be part of a warranty (they're not stupid)
2) He basically said you'll NEVER replace an entire battery pack, and I don't think the possibility of spending $1k+ on battery modules at 10+ years is unreasonable (I've spent more on timing belts, tune-ups, etc. in the past).

In general, I think people will drive a Leaf MUCH less (miles/yr) than an ICE counterpart just from it's limited range standpoint. This, combined with gentle charging practices (mostly 80%, no quick-charging, etc.) should reward those "EV ready" drivers with a long-life battery pack.
 
Regarding the amount of miles driven, many will live in areas where there are shorter commuter routes however experience has been that people with 2 cars tend to drive the EV more than the ICE vehicle.

I would agree that he was being a bit pessimistic. I actually think they did a terrible job on the video. It seemed too rehearsed and insincere... like it was take 50 that was printed - it could be the directors fault (or lack of one.) I tend to agree with the article mentioned above that Nissan too often seems to be apologizing for the electric car rather than acting as if they believed this was the future (as they have said.)
 
Interesting video.

Nissan will protect the LEAF's image with the public by taking care of the early adopters if they are of the opinion it will tarnish their entire product line. This happened with the high cost of repairing CVT where they retroactively applied extended warranties on transmissions. If their product is faulty they won't allow that to impact their ability to sell cars. Does that mean they will take good care of us? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the scale and perception of any problems with their customer base.

LEAF early adopters are typically technically inclined, and I would speculate are more likely to be bloggers. As such they will want to be sure early adopters are treated fairly. I'm not talking favoritism, we can't expect that, but fair treatment is on the cards IMHO.
 
Look at this article on Project Better Place in Israel, using a Renault Fluence.. PBP discloses the cost and life of the battery. Cost is $14k, and life will be 180k miles.. battery should be a bit smaller than what the Leaf is using, made by Nissan and I think Israel has a hot climate.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/better-place-announces-business-plan-signs-israeli-lease-deal/


batteries, made by AESC, 22kwh:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/04/renault-20100415.html
 
Nice find, Herm! They don't mention the expected capacity fade, but it's doubtful that it would be 4% per year. It looks more like 2.5 or 3% again, which would amount to about 30% over the estimated lifetime of the battery (12 years).
 
GeekEV said:
Let's hope that *is* the dealer price. If not, that's a wholesale cost of $31,000 for the battery pack on a $35,000 car!

If you buy a convetional engine from the dealer by buying all the individual components separately, it will cost a small fortune. As an assembly its only outrageous. My guess is that packs will be cheaper than buying 48 separate modules. Nissan are tight lipped about the cost of a whole battery pack, if someone damages a pack in a wreck then the cost should become apparent at that time.
 
GeekEV said:
Let's hope that *is* the dealer price. If not, that's a wholesale cost of $31,000 for the battery pack on a $35,000 car!

How else would Nissan sell you a part to repair your car?.. thru the dealership auto parts dept..

This is the original article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8674273/Electric-car-owners-may-face-19000-battery-charge.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
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