Copper wire thieves

adric22 said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

unless the LEAF's computer refuses let the car function with a module that has the wrong serial number in it.

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That is not a likely scenario. I've changed out plenty of Prius batteries and in most cases you are just changing out the modules (in other words, the cells) not the actual battery ECM. There is no practical way for the ECM to identify specific cells as being invalid. Even when you order a brand-new battery from toyota, it comes without the ECM and you have to swap the ECM over from your old battery pack.

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Let's set aside Prius batteries... laptop batteries apparently contain some info. On my Lenovo T61p, in their Power Manager software, I can see values like the manufacturer name, manufacture date, first used date, serial #, bar code #, FRU #, etc. Some of these might be mapped against known hardcoded values in the software vs. what comes back from the battery. After some Googling for laptop battery protocol, I came across stuff about SMBus.

If Nissan implemented something like that this w/the Leaf's modulesm there could be a blacklist beamed down from somewhere like Carwings. Or a check could be done via Consult III+ at dealer service time against a blacklist.

Here are some more copper theft related stories:
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/06/29/copper-thieves-strike-3-times-at-future-headquarters-of-facebook/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/10/redwood-city-sees-rash-of-copper-thefts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/09/20/3-arrested-in-san-francisco-stolen-metal-sting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cwerdna said:

Let's set aside Prius batteries... laptop batteries apparently contain some info. On my Lenovo T61p, in their Power Manager software, I can see values like the manufacturer name, manufacture date, first used date, serial #, bar code #, FRU #, etc. Some of these might be mapped against known hardcoded values in the software vs. what comes back from the battery. After some Googling for laptop battery protocol, I came across stuff about SMBus.

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But again you are talking about an entire battery pack, which has an integrated computer. I have actually taken many battery packs for laptops apart and replaced just the cells by soldering new cells in place. The computer has no idea that you have replaced the cells, other than the fact it now seems to run longer. So, while Nissan could, in theory, prevent the Leaf from operating with a different battery computer, it won't stop somebody from changing the cells. And the cells are the part that go bad after time.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/25-Ton-Bell-Snatched-from-SF-Church-132494073.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (5300 lb. copper bell stolen)

Nekota said:

Smidge204 said:

It's cute that you think the guys at the scrap metal yards might actually care. =Smidge=

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Many scrap metal places require identification due to theft due to stealing copper grounding wire off of utility poles. It would also be easy to trace the wire with tags used in explosives if the tags were placed in the insulation. And for a clincher, put a GPS in the handle on some units - but the bottom line is will any law enforcement act on a petty theft issue.

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Of course many recyclers are honest, but most are not, in my experience. We prosecuted some recyclers who routinely signed contracts with high-tech companies to dismantle and melt down computer boards and parts and instead called up the competitors to their customers (companies that sold used replacement parts) to come and buy the cream of the crop. They also routinely underreport the amount of precious metals they get from recycling the electronics. This is pretty endemic in the industry. But it takes proof of very large-scale losses to get someone to go after these guys, like an insider informant who can testify as to the stealing being in the millions.

The bring-your-own cord solution really isn't a solution unless the charge time can be made short enough that the driver will stay there and wait while it charges, like at a gas pump. Otherwise, if the driver is not around the thief can just drive up and check to see if charging has stopped (Nissan nicely provides lights to alert the thieves as to when it is safe) and unplug and cut. Even if it is locked at both ends, as long as the cable is not charged it can be cut while still plugged in.

Last night I watched "How Kill the Electric Car". There was a clip of some one plugging in there EV1 and the charging station was enclosed in a wire mesh housing. I guess it was to protect the cable and equipment. But how does the EV driver gain acess.

cwerdna said:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/25-Ton-Bell-Snatched-from-SF-Church-132494073.html (5300 lb. copper bell stolen)

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Recovered!
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/10/26/historic-bell-stolen-from-sf-cathedral-recovered-in-oakland/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LTLFTcomposite said:

The scrap metal place I go to here won't buy from you if you come on foot or on a bicycle. Chew on that.

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Around here people with recycle/scrap travel by shopping cart...

Most reputable places take a picture and make you wait 24 hours and then pay you. That's how it is in SF.

Another case of copper wire theft:
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/man-fatally-shoots-copper-wire-thief-during-home-r/nFXCJ/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cwerdna said:

Another case of copper wire theft:
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/man-fatally-shoots-copper-wire-thief-during-home-r/nFXCJ/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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To loose your life for some copper wire, wow.

Copper sword stolen from statue at Lincoln's Tomb:
http://news.yahoo.com/copper-sword-stolen-statue-lincolns-tomb-215838042.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A company I work with from time to time installed a EVSE in the back lot for its employees about a month ago. Last week the J1772 cable was cut at the unit and the cable and connector stolen. They have elected not to replace it until they can figure out a way to secure it. Unfortunately, I suspect we may see more of this when EVSEs aren't placed in front or some other highly visible and accessible location...

In Europe, many charging pedestals tend to have only a socket and the EV driver carries a cable with them in the car.


Leaving a cable unattended 24x7 may not be the best idea.

Also with each car having their own cable, if one gets stolen it doesn't disable the location as someone else can come along with their own cable.

TomT said:

A company I work with from time to time installed a EVSE in the back lot for its employees about a month ago. Last week the J1772 cable was cut at the unit and the cable and connector stolen.

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Much simpler if they just installed a few 120V sockets.. not as sexy but it works.

It seems a "J1772 extension" cord should be possible. For the same reason that the plug end of the cable is safe, they could put the 'plug' prongs in the pedestal. Then a visitor would bring their own Male-to-Female cable to charge.

I wouldn't be too thrilled about this.. likely a $300 extension cord, with the same opportunity for theft and damage, along with the hassle of packing/unpacking a dirty cable at stops.

I just don't have a lot of faith that this problem will go away. Copper theft is a universal problem, and only getting worse.

TEG said:

... Also with each car having their own cable, if one gets stolen it doesn't disable the location as someone else can come along with their own cable.

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Of course, that poor soul is out a REALLY expensive cable, and likely can't charge anywhere...maybe not even at home.

Maybe the L1 cable should have plugs on both ends but something tells me the interlocks could be a problem if the car end was attached before the EVSE end.

If a fine stranded aluminum cable could be made that would be less attractive than copper but not sure how well fine stranded aluminum wiring would handle fatigue from flexing.

Nekota said:

Maybe the L1 cable should have plugs on both ends but something tells me the interlocks could be a problem if the car end was attached before the EVSE end.

If a fine stranded aluminum cable could be made that would be less attractive than copper but not sure how well fine stranded aluminum wiring would handle fatigue from flexing.

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An aluminum cable wouldn't work because the thieves wouldn't likely know it wasn't copper until after they cut it, and maybe not even then.

When wireless charging becomes the new standard, this won't be a problem...

But of limited value if someone actually needs a substantial charge to get home or wherever. 120 is just too slow.

Herm said:

TomT said:

A company I work with from time to time installed a EVSE in the back lot for its employees about a month ago. Last week the J1772 cable was cut at the unit and the cable and connector stolen.

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Much simpler if they just installed a few 120V sockets.. not as sexy but it works.

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