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The cheapest and most efficient method of extending BEV range is not loading each car with a half-ton or more of batteries (Tesla). The superior range-extender is equipping each car with a DC charge capability (LEAF) AND building a public DC fast-charge infrastructure.

If Nissan offered you a longer-range larger battery option, at huge expense, reducing miles driven per kWh, and degrading handling and interior space, would you actually consider it, if you knew you could alternately extend the range of your LEAF 50-70 miles just by stopping for a 20 minute DC charge?

The LEAF is a great car. but until you can fast charge it, it remains (as is every other BEV) incomplete.


reeler said:
At 65 MPH, I was getting a range of between 60-70 miles in San Diego, which is generally flat, but has a many little canyons as you travel the freeways. In winter in Colorado, an 45 mile one-way commute uphill with the heater running at the 65 MPH speed limit might be cutting it close.

Maybe I could make it without passengers and the heater not running and going a little slower, but I would rather have more range to use a Leaf for that drive.

Does anyone know if the Leaf will have an option for more battery? The trunk well has plenty of room for a second battery. As an option, it could be an response to Tesla's range options. Frankly, the Leaf is more my style with the Tesla being too flashy.
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reeler said:
Does anyone know if the Leaf will have an option for more battery? The trunk well has plenty of room for a second battery. As an option, it could be an response to Tesla's range options. Frankly, the Leaf is more my style with the Tesla being too flashy.
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Your best bet is to charge at work. That essentially doubles your range. Even L1 charging for 8 hours should be okay.
 
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/reservation-numbers-dont-mean-anything

Niether does your loyalty to Tesla. Based on my conversation minutes ago with Tesla Customer Service ANYONE who will pay for a 230 mile battery pack, even if its next year, will get ahead of me in production number (I want the 160 mile pack). We are not talking signature series, we are talking Production series, it doesn't matter when you reserved.

Customer service specifically told me that eventhough they appreciate my loyalty for having reserved a year ago the reservation number are loose suggestions and holder will not receive their cars in order.
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Since there were questions about the sequence of S production ...

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/quick-update-model-s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Alpha testing is in full swing. The first Alpha hit the road in December 2010, and we continue to test as planned. Final assembly of the production-intent Beta vehicles will be done at the Tesla Factory this year and provide us with further testing and development opportunities.
- Deliveries for North America begin in mid-2012.
- The first 1000 cars off the line will be the North American Model S Signature Series. Those vehicles will be equipped with a 300 mile range battery. In the tradition of a limited-edition series, they will feature unique badging and an extensive complement of options.
- After the Model S Signature Series, deliveries for North America will continue with the 300 mile batteries, followed by 230 and 160 options later in 2012.
- Delivery of the European left-hand drive Model S is scheduled to begin in late 2012. In mid-2013 we plan to begin delivering the right-hand drive Model S for Europe and Asia. Each launch will begin with a limited edition Signature Series.
- We expect to produce approximately 5,000 units in 2012 as we ramp to full single shift production capacity of 20,000 units per year in 2013.
- The price of the US base Model S with a 160-mile battery is $49,900 after the $7,500 federal tax credit. The 230-mile range option is expected to price at about $10,000 more and the 300-mile option at about $20,000 more than the base.
- We are currently working on final pricing and options for Model S, including the Signature Series. We expect to have updates on Model S pricing worldwide this summer.
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I thought these were really well done. Lot of subtle points. Really like the 3rd one. (I watched them all at 480p med screen but 720p is avail with fullscreen)

Beta Reveal (Pt. 1): Intro & Safety
Uploaded by TeslaMotors on Oct 12, 2011
After rolling on stage in a Shasta Pearl White Model S Beta, Tesla Co-founder and CEO Elon Musk shows how Model S' electric vehicle architecture and lack of an internal combustion engine makes it a smarter, safer car. Not to mention it has twice the cargo capacity of similarly-sized sedans.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWyH9yw0LXg[/youtube]


Beta Reveal (Pt. 2): Performance
Uploaded by TeslaMotors on Oct 12, 2011
Tesla Co-founder and CEO Elon Musk highlights Model S' superior performance and handling -- both enhanced by the vehicle's ground-up electric design. Built on the platform of a rigid, floor-mounted battery pack, Model S offers the smooth acceleration of a sports car in the body of a premium sedan. Equipped with Aero wheels, the car will travel up to 320 miles on a single charge. And a performance-tuned version of Model S, available at start of production, will go 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEpepzFP9Qs[/youtube]


Beta Reveal (Pt. 3): Interior & Touchscreen
Uploaded by TeslaMotors on Oct 12, 2011
Tesla Co-founder and CEO Elon Musk steps inside the Model S Beta vehicle to showcase the car's 17-inch LCD touchscreen that controls everything from media and navigation to the panoramic roof and headlights. With wireless access and voice command built-in, Model S is setting a new standard for automotive tech savvy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMeXIRLXKU[/youtube]
 
GPowers said:
Great videos thanks for sharing. I love that 17 inch center stack.
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You're welcome. Impressive I thought and certainly shows what is possible. I have friends who couldn't fathom that they'd make EVs with over 100 miles.

BTW, the videos are hi-res too so you can watch them full screen on that setting and it is pretty decent. (right click, watch on youtube, pick 720p/1080p)
 
I've heard Nissan may produce a Tesla sport coupe beater in 2012 after their US factory is up to speed. It's rumored to have 3 new models coming out, I wonder what they will be ?

It would be hard to compete with Tesla with a sports car.
 
jstack6 said:
I've heard Nissan may produce a Tesla sport coupe beater in 2012 after their US factory is up to speed. It's rumored to have 3 new models coming out, I wonder what they will be ?

It would be hard to compete with Tesla with a sports car.
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Hardly...all you have to do is beat the price and folks will come running.
 
jstack6 said:
I've heard Nissan may produce a Tesla sport coupe beater in 2012 after their US factory is up to speed. It's rumored to have 3 new models coming out, I wonder what they will be ?

It would be hard to compete with Tesla with a sports car.
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See this -> http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
 
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/7045-Letter-from-George-12-17-2011?p=97930&viewfull=1#post97930" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm happy to say that we will deliver Model S with the 40kWh battery at the price we announced in 2009 of 49,900 after federal tax credits. We will also stick to other commitments we made earlier this year regarding delivery of the 85kWh battery the middle of 2012, the 60 kWh battery about 3 months later and the 40 kWh battery around the end of the year.
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Tesla has moved from miles to kWh - a move necessary since EPA rating will come to be much less than the advertised price. I won't be surprised if the 160 miles become 113 miles & 300 come out to be 210 miles (that is what the 70% correction will do).

Also, looks like the base version will come out only in 2013. So, if I book now I should be able to get it easily when my Leaf lease ends in Feb '14.
 
evnow said:
looks like the base version will come out only in 2013. So, if I book now I should be able to get it easily when my Leaf lease ends in Feb '14.
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That's been their plan all along, although they do spout off that they "intend" to make some of the 240 and 160 mile pack versions sooner. Don't hold your breath, the fact that they are now a public company with shareholders to answer to, a huge DOE loan, has to be putting tremendous pressure on Elon to show a profit, the only way to do that is to sell as many of the most expensive models as fast as possible, hence the production of the 300 mile range Model S's first, which is also the most technically challenging for them as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see a handfull of the smaller 240 and 160 mile versions produced as "demo" models, but nothing signifigant for sale/sold.
 
mitch672 said:
I wouldn't be surprised to see a handfull of the smaller 240 and 160 mile versions produced as "demo" models, but nothing signifigant for sale/sold.
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By when ?
 
evnow said:
mitch672 said:
I wouldn't be surprised to see a handfull of the smaller 240 and 160 mile versions produced as "demo" models, but nothing signifigant for sale/sold.
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By when ?
Click to expand...

Sometime in 2013, they have all they can do just to mfr the 300 mile versions pre-sold during calendar year 2012.
 
mitch672 said:
hence the production of the 300 mile range Model S's first, which is also the most technically challenging for them as well.
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I don't see the 85 kWh cars as being any more difficult to produce than the 40/60 kWh cars - it's just using different cells.

BTW - who else running a business would not satisfy the most expensive and most profitable customers first?

Knowing the capacity of the battery packs is interesting - the Roadster has a 56 kWh pack with a 245 mi range, so assuming that they are using the same percentage of the pack, once might guess that the Model S is about 90% as efficient as the Roadster.

The 85 kWh pack seems to be a bit of an outlier assuming 160/230/300 ranges shouldn't the range of the 85 kWh pack be more like 325 miles?
 
drees said:
The 85 kWh pack seems to be a bit of an outlier assuming 160/230/300 ranges shouldn't the range of the 85 kWh pack be more like 325 miles?
Click to expand...
Yes - there is talk of it being more than 300 miles.

BTW, I don't think there is enough demand for 300/230 mile versions to fill out the whole of 2012. There are about 6,000 reservations - including outside the US. Even if half of those are 300/230 versions from the US - that is just 3K. Given 20K per year capacity, I'd expect them to make atleast 5K in 2012. That would have to include some 160 mile cars as well.

I expect Tesla to be making money even on the base version. Also, Tesla would be very keen to get the cash flowing by selling as many cars as they can make ...
 
evnow said:
BTW, I don't think there is enough demand for 300/230 mile versions to fill out the whole of 2012. There are about 6,000 reservations - including outside the US. Even if half of those are 300/230 versions from the US - that is just 3K. Given 20K per year capacity, I'd expect them to make atleast 5K in 2012. That would have to include some 160 mile cars as well.
Click to expand...

It does not really answer you question about how many 300 mile reservations there are, but it does show over 6000 US reservations, and over 1000 of those are for Signature and Signature Special cars. It would be quite interesting if they broke down the "P" category into three subsections.

Code: 
US
S 868 (December 15, 2011)
SSL 221 (December 7, 2011)
R 270 (June 1, 2011)
P 6,275 (December 15, 2011)

S = Signature Series (Model S)
SSL = Signature Special List (Model S)
R = Roadster Owner/Friends and Family
P = General Production (Model S)

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/5747-Model-S-Tally" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 

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