Official Southern California Edison thread

I get what you guys are saying. The reason I put down everything I generated, and then started deducting, is that it just made it easier to work out. But regarding the reimbursement amounts.....Planet4ever nailed it. I was just talking about a specific time period applicable to my generation/usage - I would hope that the generation rates during that same period would be the same as if I were using from the grid instead.

What I think Boomer23 confuses is my desire for this with the desire to get paid for any excess generation at the end of the year. I realize that the PUC has not yet decided what they are going to have the utility reimburse us for that.

However, Boomer23, you encourage me with your comments on your system generation from summer last year. JimmyDreams does live in Oceanside, so who knows how more often he's "socked in" while we already have full sunshine!

I have a good portion of south facing roof and, depending which panels we're going to use, they may all fit on the south or I may have to put a few facing east. My vendor has given me a chart talking about just over 800kwH in the months of May, July, and August, then just under 800kwH in June (June gloom?). This is with 20 panels facing south and 4 facing east.

Even if we are able to go all to the south with the alternate, slightly skinnier, panels, I don't think it would make much difference from a generation standpoint since they are 230w vs. the 240w of the larger ones.

But, anyway, if I have underestimated my production, I think I'd rather have it that way than to overestimate and be disappointed when the numbers start coming in.

mwalsh said:

However, Boomer23, you encourage me with your comments on your system generation from summer last year. JimmyDreams does live in Oceanside, so who knows how more often he's "socked in" while we already have full sunshine!

I have a good portion of south facing roof and, depending which panels we're going to use, they may all fit on the south or I may have to put a few facing east. My vendor has given me a chart talking about just over 800kwH in the months of May, July, and August, then just under 800kwH in June (June gloom?). This is with 20 panels facing south and 4 facing east.

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I get socked in by the marine layer a lot. This year, June and July have sucked!! :evil:

I have 30 225watt panels on a south/southeast facing roof. My monthly generation is:

2009
Apr: 1131kWh
May: 949 kWh
June: 1018kWh

2010
Apr: 1117kWh
May: 1204kWh
June: 920kWh

Keep in mind that MOST solar installers will UNDERESTIMATE production in order to have happy customers. Mine did. A friend from work who went with another company did. Yours may very well be doing the same. Plus, also keep in mind that the panels will slowly reduce their output by as much as 20% over 25 years. Not a lot, but if you're planning on keeping the Leaf long term, it might weigh a little on your calculations.

BUT...the sun is out today and I've already generated almost 2kWh and it's only 8:30am. :mrgreen:

Jimmydreams said:

BUT...the sun is out today and I've already generated almost 2kWh and it's only 8:30am. :mrgreen:

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Nice!

My figures for comparison:

2009
April 807 kWh
May 791 kWh
June 724 kWh
July 867 kWh
Aug 764 kWh
Sept 732 kWh

2010
April 825 kWh
May 905 kWh (record high month for 3 years history)
June 804 kWh

I'm liking those figures from both you guys. The quote my guy gave me for a 5.04kwH system estimated 750kwH in May, 740kwH in June, and 760kwH in July and August. That would be with 21 x 240w panels mounted on the south facing roof.

Here's my generation details since installation and commission in March:

April: 539
May: 605
June: 525

Looks pretty similar to the rest of you guys in So Cal for 2010. So far July has been down a LOT thanks to 5 days of very little to no sun, but today has been nice and sunny once the marine layer burned off 9-10am.

I spoke with someone at SCE's EV line today about adding a TOU meter as a second meter for my EVSE circuit. I was wondering if there is any installation charge or any monthly charge for the second meter. She said that there is no meter installation charge and they "got rid of" the monthly meter charge as well.

She gave me some charges per kWh for the TOU-EV plans for whole house and for just charging the EV, but those rates differed from the ones mwalsh posted above. The super-off peak rate for the TOU-EV plan was $0.14 and the off-peak rate for the whole house TOU-EV plan was $0.11.

My dilemma is that I may have to pay up to $3,000 to upgrade my old crowded 100 amp main panel. But it may be possible to avoid doing any work on my main panel and just run my EVSE wiring from the second TOU meter. But to decide on what to do, I need accurate rate numbers for the on peak as well as off peak and super off peak times.

It will probably work out that the TOU-EV rates may not be the lowest for me, but the difference will be less expensive than paying $3,000 for a main panel upgrade.

mwalsh, did you get your rate numbers from the SCE web site or did they supply you the rates in a more comprehensible form? Their documents are confusing and seem to require adding certain columns together.

I would trust what is written on the website. Although it is a difficult read the first time.

I assume you have the ling to the rates? http://www.sce.com/PowerandEnvironment/PEV/rate-charging-options.htm

Boomer23 said:

mwalsh, did you get your rate numbers from the SCE web site or did they supply you the rates in a more comprehensible form? Their documents are confusing and seem to require adding certain columns together.

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My rates were from the SCE website. But you're right about them being confusing....my solar guy had to show me how to read them.

Thanks guys. I'll have to call them next week and have the rate pages up on my computer and have them help me read them properly.

Boomer23 said:

Thanks guys. I'll have to call them next week and have the rate pages up on my computer and have them help me read them properly.

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Hmmm....I just looked at the effective date of those rate charts - Thursday, June 1st. My posting was from Sunday, June 4th, and some of the rates do look different. I wonder if some of the rates have changed and the new rates were posted to the web AFTER I pulled the old rates?

But I still don't get the figures they told you from the new rate sheets, so I might be reading them wrong.

mwalsh said:

Boomer23 said:

Thanks guys. I'll have to call them next week and have the rate pages up on my computer and have them help me read them properly.

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Hmmm....I just looked at the effective date of those rate charts - Thursday, June 1st. My posting was from Sunday, June 4th, and some of the rates do look different. I wonder if some of the rates have changed and the new rates were posted to the web AFTER I pulled the old rates?

But I still don't get the figures they told you from the new rate sheets, so I might be reading them wrong.

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If you look at the date on the signature page of the tariff, it is really recent (early July , 2010 ?). I asked about the apparent rise in rates for the EV super-off-peak (Midnight to 6 AM) and I was told yes, there was an increase. As I read the tariff, you have to add the "distribution" price to the "generation" price, and the latter is a little indefinite because it depends upon how much is supplied by DWP wholesale to SCE.

The total I got for summer super-off-peak was 12cents/kwh. The old rate was 8cents, quite a difference.

How far has anyone else got with actually installing the SECOND METER to get the TOU EV rate?

I have asked several electricians, including the one that did my Nissan (Aerovironment) assessment, and no one had done it or knew for sure. Apparently this option is an exception to the normal rule that a residential house can only have one meter. The SCE service planner told me that the EV program is run by the same department that does solar and that was not his department.

On my latest call to SCE the person I spoke to read from a document she had just received (Aug 12) that discussed "second-meter adaptor" as well as "second-meter." I asked whether she could send me that document but she said it was internal only. She and I tried to find it on the web site during the call but it was not there.

Aug 13 I met with another electrician who told me "second-meter adapters" were common on commercial installations to sub-meter individual tenants. He told me if it was allowed it could save me money on installation. The idea is that the primary meter reads the total consumed, your house + the car charger, and the TOU meter hooked to the adaptor measures just the car charger. Then they could subtract the car charger reading from the total and apply the different rates. This way the utility lead-in line does not have to be connected to both meters.

Since the person was reading to me from a document it was not really clear to me - perhaps the adaptor is not what we want.

My interest in the TOU meter is that I've heard that the wiring to the EVSE will go from the TOU meter to the EVSE and not have to connect to the main panel at all. That could mean that I wouldn't have to add breakers to my main panel, which is currently crowded.

Can anyone shed any light on whether my thinking is on target or not?

This is the "two-meter adapter" that SDG&E apparently supplies, which includes a 40-amp breaker BEFORE your over-crowded service panel. It is "free" from SDG&E, but currently requires an extra "fee" of a bit over $9 extra per month.

Many large PG&E cities do not allow the 2nd meter.

SCE rules ... unknown, sorry.

garygid said:

This is the "two-meter adapter" that SDG&E apparently supplies, which includes a 40-amp breaker BEFORE your over-crowded service panel. It is "free" from SDG&E, but currently requires an extra "fee" of a bit over $9 extra per month.

Many large PG&E cities do not allow the 2nd meter.

SCE rules ... unknown, sorry.

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SCE people on the phone have told me they are not charging anything for the second meter, either at installation or monthly. I believe they used to charge $ 3 or so per month but not now, at least for the EV program.

I agree for folks like garygid, with a crowded main service panel, a completely separate free second meter panel with a single 40-amp breaker would be the way to go. In my case, I want to get a new panel to support remodeling, and the "two-meter adapter" might be simpler for me.

A completely separate meter means that SCE must approve the details of how they are both connected to the lead-in, because wiring before the meters is "theirs." As I understand things, I pay my electrician to install everything, and SCE just comes out to connect it, but I can't get any detailed guidance for the electrician to follow.

I will ask my local city inspector. The SCE service planner, when he visited, told me that all the second meter installations that he had seen (for other purposes, not EV) were assigned a separate address (-A, -B etc). If that satisfies both the city and SCE, that should work.

My "understanding" from pitures and descriptons:

To use the 2-meter adapter, there is no PU-side wiring required.

The current meter is pulled out, the adapter pressed into the same contacts and mounts on the same meter-hole, and the original meter pushes pack on in the same place, just an inch or so further out. The new meter is right alongside the original meter.

If SDG&E eliminated the $9/month fee (and had attractive EV chaging pricing), this "adapter" might be the way for me to install ... but I also have the PV (over) generation to consider.

Just my 2 cents. I have 2 meters now and I am on TOU with my solar system. I get a bill with everything itemized.

Gonewild said:

Just my 2 cents. I have 2 meters now and I am on TOU with my solar system. I get a bill with everything itemized.

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This is good helpful news, that you have a second meter. SCE told me I would not need a second meter just to add solar because main meters can now measure power flow separately for both directions (net consume or net generate). If your second meter was installed for the solar, perhaps it was installed some years ago ? If instead you are saying your second meter was installed recently for your EV charging port that is exactly what I am trying to do now.

In either case I would be very interested in any details you can recall of how your electrician worked with SCE and how the two meters are hooked up so I can share that with my electrician.

tbleakne, member Gonewild is located in Arizona and so does not have SCE.

However, I saw the following post from member Juiced back in June:

Juiced:
Last year we had a Southern California Edison TOU (time of use) meter installed to service our MINI E. This worked great because we were maxed out on the existing house meter capacity. The TOU meter piggy backs on the existing meter and takes power from the grid BEFORE the existing main panel. You get an additional 40 amp service without a major panel upgrade. A 40 amp disconnect is required by code near the TOU meter along with a second one near the charging unit if it is more than a certain distance away. SCE off-peak charging hours are 9:00pm to 12:00 noon

Perhaps he would be a good source for how he worked with SCE

I'll send him a private message (PM). I'll include you as well, if I can.