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Member Juiced kindly and rapidly responded to my PM about how he got the TOU meter from SCE. Text of his message follows:


Boomer23
I contacted SCE and requested a TOU meter. SCE sent out a "service planner" to assess the loads required by the EV charger and the service conditions in the neighborhood. In our case they upgraded the wire size serving the house and added a transformer so the power draw during charging would not affect the neighboring homes. SCE paid for these upgrades. SCE then installed the TOU meter, which physically piggy backs on to the existing meter. There was no charge for TOU meter and installation.

Everything downstream from the TOU meter is your responsibility. The TOU meter draws power upstream from the existing meter and requires a service disconnect immediately next to the TOU meter. The size and capacity of the service disconnect depends on the loads drawn by the EV charger. We have a 40 Amp disconnect at the TOU meter and another 40 Amp disconnect at the charger location, which is about 40 feet away in the garage. We hired an electrician to take care of all of the work beyond the TOU install. No permit is required for the TOU meter, however, a building permit is required for the wiring past the TOU meter and an inspector from your local jurisdiction will inspect the installation.

The latest number I have for contacting the SCE customer service center is (800) 239-2685

Good luck, you will really enjoy electric motoring!

Sent: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:19 am
 
Boomer23 said:
I contacted SCE and requested a TOU meter. SCE sent out a "service planner" to assess the loads required by the EV charger and the service conditions in the neighborhood. In our case they upgraded the wire size serving the house and added a transformer so the power draw during charging would not affect the neighboring homes. SCE paid for these upgrades. SCE then installed the TOU meter, which physically piggy backs on to the existing meter. There was no charge for TOU meter and installation.
Wow - how undersized is the neighborhood wiring that adding a single house with a 40A draw would require the local transformer to be upgraded? Just being overly cautious?
 
drees said:
Wow - how undersized is the neighborhood wiring that adding a single house with a 40A draw would require the local transformer to be upgraded? Just being overly cautious?

The electrification coalition says a lot of neighbourhood transformers would need to be upgraded. They will consider an EV as an additional house. Since a lot of the transformers are old & maxed out, they will upgrade it - esp if they think the area is likely to see other EV owned houses as well.
 
Weelll, I called SCE today thanks to Juiced and tbleakne and requested a service provider to come out and evaluate my service for a TOU meter. I'll hear back about that in about 5 days, they say.

I also asked for an updated listing of rates. Actually, I asked them to help me to decipher the rate charts that they have on their web site, but they really couldn't do that because it would get too complicated, with some positive and negative numbers. I just have to say that if they can't help us to decipher what they post for public guidance on their web site, then their posted rate sheets are TOO COMPLEX.

Anyway, I got the following rates from the SCE EV helpline. These appear to differ from what I was given last week, so I'm rather dismayed and still confused. But if I can believe these rates, the Super Off Peak rates for the TOU D-T-EV rate schedule are really enticing at $.09 for tier 1 as compared to the best rates on the TOU EV-1 rates at $.16. However, I don't think that these rates are available if you go with a TOU meter. That's a problem for me because I am hoping to avoid modifying or updating my main panel by adding a TOU meter. So I'll have to do a cost-benefit analysis for my specific situation, taking into account our Solar PV system with excess production.

TOU EV-1 Domestic Time-of-Use Electric Vehicle Charging - Uses separate Time of Use Meter
Summer On Peak: $0.24
...........Off Peak: 0.16
Winter On Peak: 0.18
.........Off Peak: 0.16

TOU-D-TEV Time-of-Use Domestic Tiered Electric Vehicle Charging - Uses a single meter for entire house
Summer On Peak, Tier 1: $0.21
......................Tier 2: 0.59
...........Off Peak, Tier 1: 0.12
......................Tier 2: 0.26
..Super Off-Peak, Tier 1: 0.09
......................Tier 2: 0.16
Winter On Peak,...Tier 1: 0.12
......................Tier 2: 0.26
..........Off Peak, Tier 1: 0.11
......................Tier 2: 0.16
..Super Off-Peak, Tier 1: 0.09
.......................Tier 2: 0.16


So the math may come out something like this:

First 5,000 miles of EV driving per year: Free due to 1700 kWh of solar PV production excess to household usage.

Second 5,000 miles of EV driving per year: 1700 kWh @ either $0.09 or $0.16 per kWh.

Variance between the two rates is $0.07 times 1700 kWh = $119 more per year to use the TOU meter. But I avoid spending $3,000 or more to upgrade my main panel.

I can drive for 25 years on the TOU meter T EV-1 rate before I pay off a $3,000 panel upgrade.
 
Boomer23 said:
Anyway, I got the following rates from the SCE EV helpline. These appear to differ from what I was given last week, so I'm rather dismayed and still confused.

Well, so long as the rates don't get any worse. I have done a rather exhaustive analysis of what my energy costs will be based on the rates I figured, so color me confounded and frustrated on that front. :? :lol:
 
mwalsh said:
Boomer23 said:
Anyway, I got the following rates from the SCE EV helpline. These appear to differ from what I was given last week, so I'm rather dismayed and still confused.

Well, so long as the rates don't get any worse. I have done a rather exhaustive analysis of what my energy costs will be based on the rates I figured, so color me confounded and frustrated on that front. :? :lol:

I'd love to get them to publish, in print, with effective dates, the rate information in a form similar to the way you and I have presented it. That doesn't seem too much to ask.
 
I just got off the phone with the SCE PEV help line.

Confirmed the news that tbleakne sent my by PM last Friday that SCE is discontinuing approval of TOU meters for EV use. The reason given was at least partially due to overheating, I assume caused by charging the EV. Fellow member Juiced says that he's been using such a setup to charge his Mini E for a year and he hasn't reported any trouble.

Anyway, I will be going with the TOU-D-T rate for now, so that I get the benefit of generating net solar PV power to the grid during peak times and then I'll transition to the equivalent rate for EV charging, TOU-D-T-EV, once I get the Leaf.

I was going to post the rates that she quoted me for the two rate plans, but I've found a discrepancy compared to the rate sheet that I see online, so I recommend that you call yourself to get a satisfactory answer. Just understand that the rates are the sum of the column listed as "Delivery Service Total" AND a Generation rate that is a varying mix of power from DWP and the power from other sources. So the total doesn't appear to be a fixed figure, but will vary per billing period.

Eternal thanks to tbleakne for updating my thought process on which rates work best for me and for helping me to understand SCE's posted rate sheets.
 
I got an email about the EV Rate Assistant Tool from SCE maybe a week ago. Of course, it didn't work, so I didn't bother telling you about it. However, it looks like it does work now, so give it a try:

http://www.sce.com/PowerandEnvironment/PEV/default.htm?from=pev

Not particularly useful for those with PV Systems, unless you go negative on your usage (which I haven't tried yet, so I don't know if it would work).

edison.jpg
 
I tried it, too, Michael. Not at all impressed.

I do have negative net daily usage as far as what SCE sees, and it wouldn't accept negative numbers. So I entered my actual total consumption number from last year's average, about 19 kWh. The web site told me that I'd be better off with a TOU second meter plan. But we were told a month ago that they are not offering the TOU meters.

I will probably call them in the next day or so, just to get an update on the status of that and the status of my request to go to a TOU rate even before I get the Leaf, just to take advantage of our high solar production during peak hours.

When is your solar PV system going in?
 
I used that Edison tool and I cannot see how it can determine if whole house TOU is not better than the separate meter.
Without TOU data it is worthless IMO.

Besides does the separate EV meter really give better rates than the night rates of having the general TOU meter?
 
Boomer23 said:
I do have negative net daily usage as far as what SCE sees, and it wouldn't accept negative numbers. So I entered my actual total consumption number from last year's average, about 19 kWh. The web site told me that I'd be better off with a TOU second meter plan. But we were told a month ago that they are not offering the TOU meters.

When is your solar PV system going in?
Boomer23, how long have you had your solar pv system? Have you completed a full year of PV production yet?

Our install was completed just last week, but we are still waiting for final approval from the city (Ir vine). :roll:

I was advised (by SCE?) to wait at least a yr before switching from the std residential rate to a TOU rate plan (this was without them knowing we would be getting an EV). Do you think that 1-yr wait is necessary?
 
JPVLeaf said:
I was advised (by SCE?) to wait at least a yr before switching from the std residential rate to a TOU rate plan (this was without them knowing we would be getting an EV). Do you think that 1-yr wait is necessary?

There's no way I would wait a year to go TOU with an EV. My system isn't even in yet and I'm already chastising my wife over using electricity unnecessarily between 10am and 6pm (you have to get them trained, you know. :lol: )
 
mwalsh said:
JPVLeaf said:
I was advised (by SCE?) to wait at least a yr before switching from the std residential rate to a TOU rate plan (this was without them knowing we would be getting an EV). Do you think that 1-yr wait is necessary?

There's no way I would wait a year to go TOU with an EV. My system isn't even in yet and I'm already chastising my wife over using electricity unnecessarily between 10am and 6pm (you have to get them trained, you know. :lol: )
Well, yeah, definitely once the EV arrives, I will want to switch to a TOU rate. But, I wasn't sure what the reasoning would have been behind waiting a full yr (with PV, but non-EV) unless it was just to gauge what your actual pv production vs. electricity usage numbers look like over a full 12-mo period.
 
JPVLeaf said:
Boomer23, how long have you had your solar pv system? Have you completed a full year of PV production yet?

Our install was completed just last week, but we are still waiting for final approval from the city (Ir vine). :roll:

I was advised (by SCE?) to wait at least a yr before switching from the std residential rate to a TOU rate plan (this was without them knowing we would be getting an EV). Do you think that 1-yr wait is necessary?

We've had ours in for about 3.5 years. For each year, we've produced about 1,000 kWh excess to our usage. We made some further changes to our usage (LED Xmas lights, more cfl bulbs inside, a more efficient fridge) and I'm hoping that'll give us about 2,000 kWh per year excess production, enough to drive the Leaf maybe 6K to 7K miles per year with zero emissions.

I have full daily records of our production and usage that I could show you, but they're not on a web site. My solar inverter doesn't have data-out capability, so I have to take manual readings. I'm thinking about a TED data logging device, but I'm waiting until my electrical changes for the EVSE are done.

You can check out our experience with our solar system on my blog, link at the bottom of my signature line, below.

We had no delays with City of Irvine. Our solar installer did all the work and the City was never an issue. In fact, I'd think that things would be easier now because most cities have fewer projects to review, hence shorter delays????

SCE's advice is probably based on giving you enough experience with your PV system so that you'll know how much power you'll use, for each month of the year, during PEAK times, which are often quite expensive with TOU plans. They don't want you having a heart attack when you see high costs during peak times, such as cloudy days, where you'll use some power but produce very little. With a Net Metering plan, though, it should all even out over the year.

As mwalsh says, though, once you start charging an EV, you'll want a TOU plan to take advantage of low, super off-peak rates, such as midnight to 6 am. This will save you money unless, for some reason, you have significant usage in the afternoons that isn't offset by your PV system.

I still don't understand how to determine the impact of certain scenarios within SCE's rate structures. One such scenario is my current one, where I make much more power during peak times than I use, and then I use more power during off-peak times. So with a TOU plan, do they pay me more for my production on-peak, and charge me less for my usage off-peak, resulting in a higher payback? I don't know the answer to that one. When I start to charge an EV, it will probably be moot, since I'll use a bit more than I make each year, and hopefully with a TOU plan, they'll only charge me at the off-peak times of use when I'm charging the Leaf.

See you Saturday, I expect.
 
Boomer23 said:
We had no delays with City of Irvine. Our solar installer did all the work and the City was never an issue. In fact, I'd think that things would be easier now because most cities have fewer projects to review, hence shorter delays????
Yes, if not for the City requesting additional information requested for a Tigo monitoring system, the City probably would've sign us off by now (a City inspector was onsite the last day of install). Our installers are interacting with the City. Our pv system is avg size and standard fare so that was not a problem. But, according to our installers not too many Tigo systems have been installed thusfar (and first one our guys, at least, have installed in Irvine). City keeps asking for more documentation, including re: UL listing/approval of the Tigo monitoring system .... ;)
 
mwalsh said:
My system isn't even in yet and I'm already chastising my wife over using electricity unnecessarily between 10am and 6pm (you have to get them trained, you know. :lol: )

Isn't it strange that we get more anal about saving kWh after we put in a PV system that makes massive amounts of power?

It happened to me, too, especially when I started contemplating charging an EV. I really want to maximize my net power production over usage so I can tell myself and everyone else that my Leaf is solar powered. I started unplugging the TVs when they're not in use, until my wife told me to stop messing with the one that she watches a lot in the living room. Seems she doesn't like having no response when she tries to power it on with the remote. Seems fussy to me... :lol:
 
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