FYI: NISSAN DC FAST CHARGERS UPDATE

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GREENEV

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
142
Location
Denver, CO
For all those EV drivers that are interested in knowing more about NISSAN DCQC's at local Colorado Nissan dealers listen up.........

Through careful and diligent research over the past 6 months, I've finally have the final information regarding the implementation of Nissan DCQC's in Colorado and other mountainous states in the US.

Basic Information for those who care-
Brand: Nissan NA
Manufacturer: Sumitomo Corp.
Distributor/Installer: Aerovironment

If you haven't already heard, Nissan of NA will be rolling out many Nissan branded DCQC's at Nissan dealers across the US this year. I believe Nissan is spending $150 million on the project.

Low and behold, Nissan dealers within The State of Colorado will NOT be seeing a single Nissan DCQC until further notice. Why? Well let's just say that Nissan and Sumitomo did not(for whatever reason) test/build Nissan branded DCQC's for high altitude service-yet. The Nissan chargers are only rated up to about 3200ft above sea level. I was told by Nissan NA-NTC back in October 2012 that a high altitude model is at least 6 months away. It is now May and they're still working on the high altitude version I assume. What a disgrace for ChaDeMo EV drivers in Colorado that wish to quick charge their vehicles.

Here's what you're missing:
http://nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
GREENEV said:
I was told by Nissan NA-NTC back in October 2012 that a high altitude model is at least 6 months away. It is now May and they're still working on the high altitude version I assume. What a disgrace for ChaDeMo EV drivers in Colorado that wish to quick charge their vehicles.

How is that a "disgrace"? It's six months away. I say congratulations on getting them then.

Now, if you lived in Montana, for instance, how many do you think will go there?
 
Congrats? I'm not holding my breath. Nissan DCQC in Colorado may never come to fruition. Besides, you live in San Diego and will soon have plenty of Nissan DCQC's to chose from.


TonyWilliams said:
GREENEV said:
I was told by Nissan NA-NTC back in October 2012 that a high altitude model is at least 6 months away. It is now May and they're still working on the high altitude version I assume. What a disgrace for ChaDeMo EV drivers in Colorado that wish to quick charge their vehicles.

How is that a "disgrace"? It's six months away. I say congratulations on getting them then.

Now, if you lived in Montana, for instance, how many do you think will go there?
 
What's the high altitude problem with the charger? I can't see where air density would have any effect. This car should work on the moon!
 
RePo said:
What's the high altitude problem with the charger? I can't see where air density would have any effect. This car should work on the moon!
+1
What idiot designing and testing a DCQC heat transfer system would fail to do it for only slightly lower density (and therefore a bit lower heat removal capability) high altitude air?
That is really stupid.
 
My wild guess is noise. In the early days of plasma TV, I'd heard of high altitude versions of those sets. At CES MANY years ago, the topic came up and a woman there spoke to me about it and the noise issue in a manner similar to "you dummy, you didn't know that and you don't know how bad the problem is?"
 
GREENEV said:
Congrats? I'm not holding my breath. Nissan DCQC in Colorado may never come to fruition. Besides, you live in San Diego and will soon have plenty of Nissan DCQC's to chose from.


I will ? Where? The 8 Nissan's dealer have (as far as I know) turned down the "free" chargers.

Also, I haven't owned a LEAF since Nov 2012.
 
Nissan stated that this initial rollout (implies that another round of QC's might be in our future?) would be a smarter deployment which is basically another way of enticing sales in areas that have not sold as much as Nissan may have hoped?

they also said that offering the LEAF at certain dealerships was a mistake and yes, Montana was used as an example. Venturing to say that outside the Denver metro area or any other major metro area, that the likelihood of a charger would be slim unless you are lucky enough to be between two LEAF hotbeds
 
TonyWilliams said:
RePo said:
What's the high altitude problem with the charger? I can't see where air density would have any effect. This car should work on the moon!

Thinner air gives less medium to transfer heat.
The actual reason many DC quick chargers cannot operate at higher altitudes is Paschen’s law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law. Arcing can occur. The Japan made DC quick chargers, I am aware of, are only rated to 1,000m altitude because that is all CHAdeMO requires. ECOtality's Blink is rated to 2,000m and exceeds the CHAdeMO requirement. It may be possible to have a DC-QC operate at higher altitude by de-rating it by having it charge at a slower rate.
 
kovalb said:
The actual reason many DC quick chargers cannot operate at higher altitudes is Paschen’s law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law. Arcing can occur. The Japan made DC quick chargers, I am aware of, are only rated to 1,000m altitude because that is all CHAdeMO requires. ECOtality's Blink is rated to 2,000m and exceeds the CHAdeMO requirement. It may be possible to have a DC-QC operate at higher altitude by de-rating it by having it charge at a slower rate.

Thanks, I had no idea. So if somehow I could justify buying a personal QC station I shouldn't anyway, at least given what is currently available, as we are at 7400 ft. That QC port on my LEAFs is seeming more and more like a waste of space.
 
kovalb said:
The actual reason many DC quick chargers cannot operate at higher altitudes is Paschen’s law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law. Arcing can occur. The Japan made DC quick chargers, I am aware of, are only rated to 1,000m altitude because that is all CHAdeMO requires. ECOtality's Blink is rated to 2,000m and exceeds the CHAdeMO requirement. It may be possible to have a DC-QC operate at higher altitude by de-rating it by having it charge at a slower rate.
Excellent and informative response :D :D . The difference in heat transfer capability at high altitude is relatively modest, and clearly should be allowed for in the design. But the difference on arc length, the Paschen law is significant.
But MOST equipment sold in the US could be used anywhere, such as Denver, and needs to be designed for this.
Why did Blink choose a more conservative 2000m, much better than the 1000m in the Japanese standard, but still short of what is needed for the continental US?
 
TimLee said:
kovalb said:
The actual reason many DC quick chargers cannot operate at higher altitudes is Paschen’s law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law. Arcing can occur. The Japan made DC quick chargers, I am aware of, are only rated to 1,000m altitude because that is all CHAdeMO requires. ECOtality's Blink is rated to 2,000m and exceeds the CHAdeMO requirement. It may be possible to have a DC-QC operate at higher altitude by de-rating it by having it charge at a slower rate.
Excellent and informative response :D :D . The difference in heat transfer capability at high altitude is relatively modest, and clearly should be allowed for in the design. But the difference on arc length, the Paschen law is significant.
But MOST equipment sold in the US could be used anywhere, such as Denver, and needs to be designed for this.
Why did Blink choose a more conservative 2000m, much better than the 1000m in the Japanese standard, but still short of what is needed for the continental US?
I imagine it was a cost issue. 2,000m (6,562 ft.) covers all the major metropolitan areas in the U.S., and they may have figured that short-range BEVs were ill-suited to use in mountainous and often very cold rural areas of the country in any case, owners like dgpcolorado being the exception. But I can think of many main roads and routes to ski resorts or through routes across the Rockies and Sierra Nevada (I think the Cascades are probably okay) where 2,000 m is not enough, and 2,500m (8,202') or even 3,000m (9,843 ft') would be needed.
 
None in the Phoenix area? What! I'm shocked. Nissan should be kissing the rear ends of every LEAF owner in Phoenix especially after the class action lawsuit that was filed regarding the battery degradation.



LEAFfan said:
Be thankful you're getting them in 6 mos. We are getting none at all ten dealers in the Phoenix area.
 
Hi Tony,
Sorry, I thought I heard(assumed) San Diego County Nissan Dealers were getting Nissan DCQC's.

Are you saying eight Nissan dealers in San Diego have turned down the free DCQC's?





TonyWilliams said:
GREENEV said:
Congrats? I'm not holding my breath. Nissan DCQC in Colorado may never come to fruition. Besides, you live in San Diego and will soon have plenty of Nissan DCQC's to chose from.


I will ? Where? The 8 Nissan's dealer have (as far as I know) turned down the "free" chargers.

Also, I haven't owned a LEAF since Nov 2012.
 
GREENEV said:
None in the Phoenix area? What! I'm shocked. Nissan should be kissing the rear ends of every LEAF owner in Phoenix especially after the class action lawsuit that was filed regarding the battery degradation.

LEAFfan said:
Be thankful you're getting them in 6 mos. We are getting none at all ten dealers in the Phoenix area.
Although more DC-QCs would be welcomed, we already have quite a few that were installed by ECOtality, and are currently no cost to use. We will be seeing even more in Phoenix as Fry's Grocery announced they will be installing quite a few Blink DC-QCs shortly. :)
 
GREENEV said:
Hi Tony,
Sorry, I thought I heard(assumed) San Diego County Nissan Dealers were getting Nissan DCQC's.

Are you saying eight Nissan dealers in San Diego have turned down the free DCQC's?


There are only two owners for 8 dealers. To my knowledge (which may not be accurate), none have accepted "free" chargers.
 
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