Official Ford C-MAX Energi PHEV thread

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adric22 said:
I'll be curious to hear how it works out for you. My wife is still pressuring me to get a Cmax Energi when our Leaf lease is up (and I'll be driving the Volt) but unfortunately if she drives the Cmax we'll have a gas bill again because she has a 40 mile round trip commute. And with her lead-footedness I know the ICE will have to kick on for her to accelerate the way she likes to.
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Yeah, I think I'd rather go one way or the other: a plug and no ICE, or a hybrid of some kind with no plug. From what I've seen, when you have a small battery, the only way to get good mileage is to spend your whole life hunting for places to plug in. I've seen several C-Max Energi owners at charge stations for 5 times longer than I'm at the QC (3.3 kW level 2 charger is the best you'll get) just trying to make their investment worth it. And if you plug in constantly and get 60 or 70 mpg, that's not that much better than 50 from a hybrid. That new Accord Hybrid looks pretty nice: totally series hybrid until freeway speeds when it's 100% ICE. I'd just do something like that.
 
pkulak said:
adric22 said:
I'll be curious to hear how it works out for you. My wife is still pressuring me to get a Cmax Energi when our Leaf lease is up (and I'll be driving the Volt) but unfortunately if she drives the Cmax we'll have a gas bill again because she has a 40 mile round trip commute. And with her lead-footedness I know the ICE will have to kick on for her to accelerate the way she likes to.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I'd rather go one way or the other: a plug and no ICE, or a hybrid of some kind with no plug. From what I've seen, when you have a small battery, the only way to get good mileage is to spend your whole life hunting for places to plug in. I've seen several C-Max Energi owners at charge stations for 5 times longer than I'm at the QC (3.3 kW level 2 charger is the best you'll get) just trying to make their investment worth it. And if you plug in constantly and get 60 or 70 mpg, that's not that much better than 50 from a hybrid. That new Accord Hybrid looks pretty nice: totally series hybrid until freeway speeds when it's 100% ICE. I'd just do something like that.
Click to expand...

yeah, I kinda agree with pkulak on that. Maybe just the CMAX hybrid would work better for your wife, adric22, since she has a 40-mile commute and she likes to drive fast. But if she can charge at work, the Energi could work. But I'll let you know how things go!
 
I have a co-worker with a PiP and he spends his whole life looking for plugs so he can constantly charge his miserably small battery. I'm sorry, but if your driving requires such foolishness, you are simply driving the wrong car!

malloryk said:
yeah, I kinda agree with pkulak on that. Maybe just the CMAX hybrid would work better for your wife, adric22, since she has a 40-mile commute and she likes to drive fast. But if she can charge at work, the Energi could work.
Click to expand...
 
pkulak said:
Yeah, I think I'd rather go one way or the other: a plug and no ICE, or a hybrid of some kind with no plug. From what I've seen, when you have a small battery, the only way to get good mileage is to spend your whole life hunting for places to plug in. I've seen several C-Max Energi owners at charge stations for 5 times longer than I'm at the QC (3.3 kW level 2 charger is the best you'll get) just trying to make their investment worth it. And if you plug in constantly and get 60 or 70 mpg, that's not that much better than 50 from a hybrid. That new Accord Hybrid looks pretty nice: totally series hybrid until freeway speeds when it's 100% ICE. I'd just do something like that.
Click to expand...
Well, I can't agree with that because the battery would certainly reduce her gas usage in half compared to a regular C-max, at least. And since we already have two perfectly good L2 EVSEs mounted in the garage, might as well make use of them. Oh, and I understand with the incentives you can get the Energi model for around the same price as a regular C-Max. Which would raise the question, why would we ever want the regular C-Max?
 
adric22 said:
pkulak said:
Yeah, I think I'd rather go one way or the other: a plug and no ICE, or a hybrid of some kind with no plug. From what I've seen, when you have a small battery, the only way to get good mileage is to spend your whole life hunting for places to plug in. I've seen several C-Max Energi owners at charge stations for 5 times longer than I'm at the QC (3.3 kW level 2 charger is the best you'll get) just trying to make their investment worth it. And if you plug in constantly and get 60 or 70 mpg, that's not that much better than 50 from a hybrid. That new Accord Hybrid looks pretty nice: totally series hybrid until freeway speeds when it's 100% ICE. I'd just do something like that.
Click to expand...
Well, I can't agree with that because the battery would certainly reduce her gas usage in half compared to a regular C-max, at least. And since we already have two perfectly good L2 EVSEs mounted in the garage, might as well make use of them. Oh, and I understand with the incentives you can get the Energi model for around the same price as a regular C-Max. Which would raise the question, why would we ever want the regular C-Max?
Click to expand...
We have an Energi and unless your wife can charge at work, I'm with pkulak. My wife's <20 mile commute means no gas, but at the expense of cargo utility. Hybrid gives you back cargo space and less weight, so better mileage for lead foot wifey ;) If no workplace charging, Volt sounds like a better answer, or a better BEV. Is the BMW i3 too expensive? Would the REx work?
 
pkulak said:
Yeah, I think I'd rather go one way or the other: a plug and no ICE, or a hybrid of some kind with no plug. From what I've seen, when you have a small battery, the only way to get good mileage is to spend your whole life hunting for places to plug in. I've seen several C-Max Energi owners at charge stations for 5 times longer than I'm at the QC (3.3 kW level 2 charger is the best you'll get) just trying to make their investment worth it. And if you plug in constantly and get 60 or 70 mpg, that's not that much better than 50 from a hybrid. That new Accord Hybrid looks pretty nice: totally series hybrid until freeway speeds when it's 100% ICE. I'd just do something like that.
Click to expand...
Thats a big reason why the Volt doesn't work for us. I guess if your typical usage lies within the range of the vehicle then maybe its ok. But we often, if not usually, travel farther in a day than the Volt can on electric. Once you start using the ICE it sounds like just a way to improve mileage with a bunch of hassle. The LEAFs range is enough for us on a daily basis.
 
I brought my CMAX Energi home Tues. evening and I've been loving it so far. I had to use a little gas on Thanksgiving but the rest of the time I've been driving electric. They briefly went through the tech features of the car at the dealership but I was able to figure out how to do stuff on my own pretty easily like setting charging and climate control times. The voice command works way better than it did in my Leaf. I had to reinstall the app but now it's working perfectly. A lot more functionality than the Leaf app had. It's a fun car!
 
malloryk said:
I brought my CMAX Energi home Tues. evening and I've been loving it so far. I had to use a little gas on Thanksgiving but the rest of the time I've been driving electric. They briefly went through the tech features of the car at the dealership but I was able to figure out how to do stuff on my own pretty easily like setting charging and climate control times. The voice command works way better than it did in my Leaf. I had to reinstall the app but now it's working perfectly. A lot more functionality than the Leaf app had. It's a fun car!
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in hearing a full review of your thoughts on the car, coming from a Leaf. There's still a chance this car may be in our future, but I'm pushing for another Volt or a BMW i3-Rex. But I'm very curious to hear how you are able to get along with the car. What do you think of the acceleration power in EV mode? I was underwhelmed, but I also admit I could probably get used to it.
 
adric22 said:
malloryk said:
I brought my CMAX Energi home Tues. evening and I've been loving it so far. I had to use a little gas on Thanksgiving but the rest of the time I've been driving electric. They briefly went through the tech features of the car at the dealership but I was able to figure out how to do stuff on my own pretty easily like setting charging and climate control times. The voice command works way better than it did in my Leaf. I had to reinstall the app but now it's working perfectly. A lot more functionality than the Leaf app had. It's a fun car!
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in hearing a full review of your thoughts on the car, coming from a Leaf. There's still a chance this car may be in our future, but I'm pushing for another Volt or a BMW i3-Rex. But I'm very curious to hear how you are able to get along with the car. What do you think of the acceleration power in EV mode? I was underwhelmed, but I also admit I could probably get used to it.
Click to expand...

The acceleration is definitely choppy in EV mode, especially when compared to the Volt, which I found to be super smooth. But I only really feel that when I'm speeding up to get on the freeway. Most of my driving is city driving within a 10-mile radius so then it's smoother. Definitely had to get used to transitioning from the even, quiet acceleration of the Leaf. The Energi doesn't have the same boost from stop that the Leaf has. I found myself unintentionally flooring it the first day I had it but I've adjusted to it now. BUT I'm not picky with cars when it comes to performance. I just want to get from point A to B in comfort. As for the Volt, I just felt claustrophobic in it and I liked the available features in the Energi more and felt that the visibility was better. And I'm a sucker for a hatchback, although the trunk space in the Energi is really limited. My Leaf's brakes could be really grabby in lower speeds too and the Volt and Energi definitely don't have that. I know that you can get leather heated seats in the Leaf now but mine didn't have it so I'm really loving that feature in my Energi, which comes standard. And the power lift gate has come in handy a few times already with trips to the grocery store and Target. Didn't expect to appreciate that feature but now it'd definitely be hard to part with.
 
malloryk said:
adric22 said:
malloryk said:
I brought my CMAX Energi home Tues. evening and I've been loving it so far. I had to use a little gas on Thanksgiving but the rest of the time I've been driving electric. They briefly went through the tech features of the car at the dealership but I was able to figure out how to do stuff on my own pretty easily like setting charging and climate control times. The voice command works way better than it did in my Leaf. I had to reinstall the app but now it's working perfectly. A lot more functionality than the Leaf app had. It's a fun car!
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in hearing a full review of your thoughts on the car, coming from a Leaf. There's still a chance this car may be in our future, but I'm pushing for another Volt or a BMW i3-Rex. But I'm very curious to hear how you are able to get along with the car. What do you think of the acceleration power in EV mode? I was underwhelmed, but I also admit I could probably get used to it.
Click to expand...

The acceleration is definitely choppy in EV mode, especially when compared to the Volt, which I found to be super smooth. But I only really feel that when I'm speeding up to get on the freeway. Most of my driving is city driving within a 10-mile radius so then it's smoother. Definitely had to get used to transitioning from the even, quiet acceleration of the Leaf. The Energi doesn't have the same boost from stop that the Leaf has. I found myself unintentionally flooring it the first day I had it but I've adjusted to it now. BUT I'm not picky with cars when it comes to performance. I just want to get from point A to B in comfort. As for the Volt, I just felt claustrophobic in it and I liked the available features in the Energi more and felt that the visibility was better. And I'm a sucker for a hatchback, although the trunk space in the Energi is really limited. My Leaf's brakes could be really grabby in lower speeds too and the Volt and Energi definitely don't have that. I know that you can get leather heated seats in the Leaf now but mine didn't have it so I'm really loving that feature in my Energi, which comes standard. And the power lift gate has come in handy a few times already with trips to the grocery store and Target. Didn't expect to appreciate that feature but now it'd definitely be hard to part with.
Click to expand...

We actually considered the C-Max as a companion to our LEAF (drove both versions) but the lack of cargo space, especially in the Energi was a deal breaker and the rock hard seats in the back was the killer; almost sounds like these don't get used by you much? The C-Max after all is based on the Focus platform so can excuse the space a bit but something north of $30K should have more comfortable seats for passengers; the fronts are fine but anyone in back for any length of time (other than perhaps kids) won't appreciate them much. We're starting to see more of these as I think Ford has offered heavy discounts on the Energi but it should be getting some more competition soon; still found the whole voice activation excessive but perhaps that's just me ... a lot of new owners have found issues with so time will tell how much they much the try to refine it when complaints come in.
 
I'm thinking about the A3 e-tron, cause I need cargo space too:

http://www.plugincars.com/first-drive-audi-a3-plug-hybrid-shows-vw-commitment-electric-cars-128974.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Idiots. Or liars.

"When is a plug-in hybrid not among the most green and baby-squirrel-friendly options out there? When there’s a version of that same plug-in hybrid that doesn’t require being plugged into a dirty, coal-powered wall outlet. Witness Ford’s C-Max Solar Energi concept, which is pretty much a C-Max Energi—the plug-in variant of the C-Max hybrid—with a solar-powered charging apparatus for its battery pack. "

No, it doesn't require being plugged in - if you don't need to drive more than a mile or so a day, on average.

"Of course, charging the Solar Energi’s battery is where things differ from the regular C-Max Energi. Instead of sucking juice through a charging cable, the Solar Energi draws power from a solar array on its roof."

Instead of? Really? so no plug port, I guess? Sheesh.
 
"Thanks to the lens, Ford says the intensity of light is boosted eight times, resulting in a daylong charging cycle capable of drumming up 8 kW of energy."

Can this be true?
 
Valdemar said:
"Thanks to the lens, Ford says the intensity of light is boosted eight times, resulting in a daylong charging cycle capable of drumming up 8 kW of energy."

Can this be true?
Click to expand...

It is total BS. There is only so much energy per given sq.foot coming from the sun. You can't increase that amount of energy using a lens.

I learned this lesson as a kid. I loved killing ants. I sometimes used a magnifying glass. One day I got hold of a giant fresnel lens and thought I could heat up the entire and colony. So I created a makeshift frame to hold the lens in place for hours. I just had to adjust it slightly as the sun moved overhead. Well, it never worked. There was always one really hot place right in the center about an inch in diameter. But the rest of the colony was the same temperature as before. Then eventually I realized the exact same amount of sunlight was hitting the ant colony as was hitting it before. Only now most of it was concentrated in one spot and the rest of the colony was now in the shade, and thus cooling down. I realized the only way I'd be able to heat up the entire nest would be to have a lens much larger than the nest itself, therefor collecting light from the surrounding areas too.

So in the case of the C-Max. In order for a lens to actually help collect more light, it would need to be actually larger than the vehicle itself.
 
adric22 said:
So in the case of the C-Max. In order for a lens to actually help collect more light, it would need to be actually larger than the vehicle itself.
Click to expand...
It is larger than the C-Max itself. It's a large carport with a lense which focuses the light onto the solar panels on the car.

Fun proof-of-concept, but completely impractical.

Better off tying the solar panels to the grid - and if you really wanted to charge the car in the most efficient manner, you'd be able to DCQC the car directly from the high voltage DC from the solar panels, only needing a highly efficient DC-DC inverter instead of two relatively inefficient DC-AC -> AC-DC inverters.
 
Here's a mystery for you.

I was looking at Ford.com today, comparing the prices of cars such as the Fusion, Fusion Hybrid, and Fusion Energi. I was trying to put some sort of logic as to how much extra Ford considers the advanced drive train to be worth. I was doing this mostly to try to guess what the "Focus Energi" might end up being priced.

So if you click on "cars" it lists all of their regular ICE cars, oddly enough the C-Max is listed on here. I assumed that is because a lot of potential customers might not realize that all C-Max cars sold in the USA are hybrids at minimum. But they don't call it a hybrid on this page. It just says C-Max. And the price is listed as $25,170.

So next, if you click on "hybrids and EVs" you'll find the "Cmax Hybrid SEL" listed at $28,455. At first thought, I considered maybe they were actually selling a non-hybrid version, but when you click on the links, both will take you to the Cmax Hybrid page.

So that is an odd thing, to say the least.

Anyway, I'm sort of hoping the Focus Energi will be priced under $30,000. That would be awesome. And if it got the $4,000 credit that would make it cost around $26,000 or even less in states with their own credits. That would make one of the most affordable plug-in hybrids available, and in a body style that most people like. I could see them selling 2,000 to 3,000 units per month of such a car.
 
adric22 said:
Here's a mystery for you.

I was looking at Ford.com today, comparing the prices of cars such as the Fusion, Fusion Hybrid, and Fusion Energi. I was trying to put some sort of logic as to how much extra Ford considers the advanced drive train to be worth. I was doing this mostly to try to guess what the "Focus Energi" might end up being priced.

So if you click on "cars" it lists all of their regular ICE cars, oddly enough the C-Max is listed on here. I assumed that is because a lot of potential customers might not realize that all C-Max cars sold in the USA are hybrids at minimum. But they don't call it a hybrid on this page. It just says C-Max. And the price is listed as $25,170.

So next, if you click on "hybrids and EVs" you'll find the "Cmax Hybrid SEL" listed at $28,455. At first thought, I considered maybe they were actually selling a non-hybrid version, but when you click on the links, both will take you to the Cmax Hybrid page.

So that is an odd thing, to say the least.

Anyway, I'm sort of hoping the Focus Energi will be priced under $30,000. That would be awesome. And if it got the $4,000 credit that would make it cost around $26,000 or even less in states with their own credits. That would make one of the most affordable plug-in hybrids available, and in a body style that most people like. I could see them selling 2,000 to 3,000 units per month of such a car.
Click to expand...
The problem being that they're going to be at least as restricted on cargo space as the C-Max Energi and the FFE are, and that's a deal killer for many people, especially those who want the hatchback. Pity, because I think the Volt needs a closer competitor.
 

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