Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
AndyH said:
Nubo said:
What a shame. I've met a number of Texans who seem downright proud of the laxity of environmental enforcement in their state.
Yup. Just as I've met Californians that lament the layers upon layers of regulation and the relatively insane price of fuel. ;)

Texas is a red state because of Gerrymandering. This, too, shall be overcome.

Yeah I suppose I shouldn't form an opinion on Texas culture based on a small sample. Are they really a blue state by percentage?

As for the price of gasoline, some people do freak out. We Americans are very sensitive to the price of gasoline. People will deliberately drive miles out of their way to save $2 on a tank of gasoline, and then spend $4 on a coffee. The small savings makes them feel like they're not getting ripped off. It's a massive sentiment that will sooner or late cause EV sales to flash over. The satisfaction of driving past any and all gas stations is several magnitudes greater than saving a trifling dime on a $4 gallon of gas.
 
AndyH said:
Texas is a red state because of Gerrymandering. This, too, shall be overcome.
Gerrymandering doesn't change presidential election results.

But yes, in a couple of cycles, TX will indeed be a pink state.
 
evnow said:
AndyH said:
Texas is a red state because of Gerrymandering. This, too, shall be overcome.
Gerrymandering doesn't change presidential election results.

But yes, in a couple of cycles, TX will indeed be a pink state.
On the presidential side, we expect Texas to be purple in 2016 and blue somewhat after - and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off. ;) At the state level, Wendy Davis is within a few percentage points of the Republican candidate for governor.

Gerrymandering absolutely affects both state and federal representation, and thus political appointees to bodies like the Texas Railroad Commission (oil/gas lease management) and the Texas Comission on Environmental Quality (emissions rules/permitting) and the state and Federal courts. In such an environment, and with regards to oil/gas 'development', it doesn't matter who the president is.

And while your comment may be technically true, the lines are quite blurred when the Gerrymandered oligarchy can easily pass laws that limit voting access to members of a particular party. That does affect presidential election results.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
AndyH said:
...and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off
Cliven Bundy, Donald Sterling... apparently this is the week for racist remarks.
So...AndyH's remarks above aren't racist? I'm an "old/white/(but not fat) guy; and I resent what AndyH said. :(
 
AndyH said:
And while your comment may be technically true, the lines are quite blurred when the Gerrymandered oligarchy can easily pass laws that limit voting access to members of a particular party. That does affect presidential election results.
Yes - it can seriously start affecting presidential elections if voting access laws are gutted at the state level by gerrymandered representatives.

Worst case of 2010 gerrymandering is in PA - where the President easily won but some 80% of house members are Republicans.
 
derkraut said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
AndyH said:
...and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off
Cliven Bundy, Donald Sterling... apparently this is the week for racist remarks.
So...AndyH's remarks above aren't racist? I'm an "old/white/(but not fat) guy; and I resent what AndyH said. :(

no... some are fat, some are old and some are white. the N word is no where near the same level and can't believe you would even bring it up
 
derkraut said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
AndyH said:
...and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off
Cliven Bundy, Donald Sterling... apparently this is the week for racist remarks.
So...AndyH's remarks above aren't racist? I'm an "old/white/(but not fat) guy; and I resent what AndyH said. :(
I don't consider self-deprecation to be racist. Considering I'm a 50+ year old 'natural' US citizen of Euro-mutt descent, retired military, still consider myself to be an old-school conservative in many ways (especially the type that honors conservation and are the type that fought to bring the EPA into existence), and voted R ~90% of my adult life, I put myself squarely in the potential cross-hairs. But I know that I'm not 'down range' because I think the type of behavior both on-topic and off is abhorrent.

My comment was in this vein:
Max Planck said:
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.
It's often paraphrased as:
Science advances one funeral at a time.

The fact remains that Texas is now a 'minority majority' state and this has some of the more 'rich and powerful' (ahem...old, white, wealthy - facts is facts, amigo) citizenry in full-time fear mode. That's why they can 'justify' reducing hours for voter-ID services in 'brown' neighborhoods while expanding hours in 'white/Republican' neighborhoods, continued Gerrymandering, their war on women, and all the other BS they can try to rationalize so they can stay in power...just...one...more...year.

Talking about racial truth and discrimination isn't the same as racism - I'm shining a light on abuses of power, not advocating for slavery.

http://www.thewire.com/politics/201...-sues-prove-texas-lawmakers-are-racist/68632/
The Justice Department filed suit against Texas on Thursday, in an attempt to block the state's strict new voter identification law...At issue are new voting rules which a district appeals court dubbed "the most stringent in the country." The rules mandate a state-issued ID for anyone seeking to vote, a stipulation that would, in effect, prevent far more Latino (and probably Democratic) residents from casting votes in the solidly red Lone Star state.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-clymer/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-racism_b_3497572.html
Quick story: I grew up in Texas. I went with my father when he voted in the Democratic Primary for the 2002 midterms. I was 16. I should mention that he and I are unmistakably white. However you perceive "whiteness", I think, on sight, 99 percent of folks in our area would guess we're conservatives. It is what it is.

We walk up to the election worker, an old white man, who was very friendly initially until my father asked where he was supposed to vote for the Democratic primary. Immediately, the man's face went sour, pointed in the direction of the area, and said, "Don't know why you'd want to vote for Democrats."

That was us. Now, imagine a person of color attempting to vote in an environment that's hostile even to stereotypically white folks who reveal they're liberals/moderates. Is it even worth the emotional pain? Why should a person of color have to factor cultural hostility into their decision to vote?
How about it, Tom, Kraut, and LT - are you fine gentlemen in favor of Gerrymandering, voter ID laws, stereotyping, or putting the oil refinery in the 'brown' neighborhood? If so, then you've got plenty of company. San Antonio's refineries aren't located where the rich folks live, and of COURSE Rex Tillerson wouldn't want fracking happening near HIS house!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/26/us-usa-fracking-tillerson-idUSBREA1P24O20140226

The nerve. :roll:
 
evnow said:
Ok - now back on topic.

Is this verdict a one off or will it make frackers think twice ?
Fingers crossed that it's the crack that brings the dam down. I cannot believe I'm thinking this, but bring on the personal injury law firms coast to coast! :lol:
 
If anyone wants to explore, the Texas Railroad Commission has their pipeline and oil/gas well geographic information system files on-line now. One will have to zoom in to get to the details, but every well's listed - oil, gas, injection, and dry hole.

http://wwwgisp.rrc.state.tx.us/GISViewer2/

Click the item called "Visibility" on the left end of the blue menu bar for a selection menu.
 
Oh boy, Andy isn't going to like this... I'm not crazy about it either.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-reasons-us-recovering-leaving-084953322.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many analysts and politicians say this resource is the next industrial revolution. Hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," has helped lead a boom in gas and oil production in the U.S. The new technology is unlocking oil and shale gas resources, spurring economic activity and giving industry a competitive edge with less expensive gas and electricity prices
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Oh boy, Andy isn't going to like this... I'm not crazy about it either.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-reasons-us-recovering-leaving-084953322.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many analysts and politicians say this resource is the next industrial revolution. Hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," has helped lead a boom in gas and oil production in the U.S. The new technology is unlocking oil and shale gas resources, spurring economic activity and giving industry a competitive edge with less expensive gas and electricity prices

It is certainly going to be a tough fight. I'm not sure how much faith I have in todays Americans to put their health and environment ahead of a few dollars.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Oh boy, Andy isn't going to like this... I'm not crazy about it either.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-reasons-us-recovering-leaving-084953322.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many analysts and politicians say this resource is the next industrial revolution. Hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," has helped lead a boom in gas and oil production in the U.S. The new technology is unlocking oil and shale gas resources, spurring economic activity and giving industry a competitive edge with less expensive gas and electricity prices
I neither like nor dislike this because it's a garbage piece written from an insane view of the world. This country is in decline, not recovery. Large businesses are booming but they're doing it by screwing over workers, land owners, and the environment for short-term profits. The fossil fuel industry is in a last-gasp push to generate as much cash flow as possible before they're forced to leave the oilfields behind.

The narrow appearance of 'growth' is costing locals more than the oil companies are 'earning'. :( People being poisoned, losing safe water, losing their land, or being unable to finance land. Since fracked fields don't continue to produce the way traditional wells used to - production peaks and falls quickly. That forces a re-fracture - and requires multi-millions of gallons of water and new batches of chemicals. Note that many of the areas where this activity is booming are in severe drought...

Mortgages denied because of fracking:
http://www.wtae.com/investigations/Couple-denied-mortgage-because-of-gas-drilling/12865512

Property values plummet
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/02/21/3316881/exxon-ceo-protests-fracking/
As ExxonMobil’s CEO, it’s Rex Tillerson’s job to promote the hydraulic fracturing enabling the recent oil and gas boom, and fight regulatory oversight. The oil company is the biggest natural gas producer in the U.S., relying on the controversial drilling technology to extract it.
The exception is when Tillerson’s $5 million property value might be harmed. Tillerson has joined a lawsuit that cites fracking’s consequences in order to block the construction of a 160-foot water tower next to his and his wife’s Texas home.
http://ecowatch.com/2013/11/13/fracking-american-dream-drilling-decreases-property-value/
http://www.dchlaw.com/lossofpropertyvalue
http://www.dukechronicle.com/articl...rs-show-dip-home-value-caused-nearby-fracking

501882cb112ba4f87b4effb80960312014a50b13.jpg


Our culture's insane and it really hurts to watch. Thanks for the link though.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Oh boy, Andy isn't going to like this... I'm not crazy about it either.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-reasons-us-recovering-leaving-084953322.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many analysts and politicians say this resource is the next industrial revolution. Hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," has helped lead a boom in gas and oil production in the U.S. The new technology is unlocking oil and shale gas resources, spurring economic activity and giving industry a competitive edge with less expensive gas and electricity prices

nothing but a spin article with no real foundation
 
Why would a house (that doesn't use groundwater - directly) go up 11% by virtue of being in 1.25 mile proximity to fracking? To house the frackers?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why would a house (that doesn't use groundwater - directly) go up 11% by virtue of being in 1.25 mile proximity to fracking? To house the frackers?

That or the only other reason I could think of is the value of the land as a potential site for another rig?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Why would a house (that doesn't use groundwater - directly) go up 11% by virtue of being in 1.25 mile proximity to fracking? To house the frackers?
After reading the piece and scanning the 'study', it appears they isolated a single factor - source of water - in order to directly compare property value changes. There's enough documentation now that drilling/fracturing does negatively affect local water. Down here, there doesn't seem to be a distinction, because it's hard to find rural or semi-rural property that doesn't rely on ground water - and that's where most of the wells are drilled.

http://www.texastribune.org/2013/03/08/texas-water-use-fracking-stirs-concerns/
In 2011, Texas used a greater number of barrels of water for oil and natural gas fracking (about 632 million) than the number of barrels of oil it produced (about 441 million), according to figures from the Texas Water Development Board and the Railroad Commission of Texas, the state’s oil and gas regulator.

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic...t-the-frackingwater-collision-in-south-texas/
From January 2011 through May 2013, hydraulic fracturing producers in the Eagle Ford used about 19 billion gallons of water for 4,300-plus wells, the highest water use of any shale basin in the country...
edit...

FWIW - the copy of the paper was not listed as 'published' or peer reviewed. It appears to have been authored at the behest of the 'non-partisan' National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) and Resources for the Future (RFF). Sourcewatch suggests NBER has slanted 'right' (anti-tax, free market) since the 1980s. The RFF appears to be more in favor of the environment; no idea if the two organization's positions balance each other.

http://public.econ.duke.edu/~timmins/w18390.pdf
While shale gas development can result in rapid local economic development, negative externalities
associated with the process may adversely affect the prices of nearby homes. We utilize a triple-difference
estimator and exploit the public water service area boundary in Washington County, Pennsylvania
to identify the housing capitalization of groundwater risk, differentiating it from other externalities,
lease payments to homeowners, and local economic development. We find that proximity to wells
increases housing values, though risks to groundwater fully offset those gains. By itself, groundwater
risk reduces property values by up to 24 percent.

http://www.nber.org/
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Bureau_of_Economic_Research
http://www.rff.org/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Resources_for_the_Future

Earthworks' article on the paper has links to info from other areas as well.
http://www.earthworksaction.org/issues/detail/property_value#.U3vLAvldXpA
 
Will facking go on trial in California?

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2014/10/they-fracked-califronias-most-productive-and-drought-stricken-ag-region-you-won" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Back
Top