6600+ ft. of climbing / LEAF in the San Bernardino Mountains

Abasile, We've got some snow here also, although not quite that much at my house. I made the trek across the San Juan Mountains this morning to Durango for my annual battery check (I "passed" with five stars, nothing new there). I kept four bars on the temp gauge the whole way despite -15 degree F temperatures in Ridgway! And I can assure you that blowing cold outside air to defrost the windshield is brisk at below zero temperatures. I charged for two and a half hours in Silverton and ended up with one bar in Durango. The range is well down from when I did it in September due to the very cold temps, made it on a single charge then. Now I am waiting for my 100% charge at the dealer in the hope that I can make it to the top of Molas Pass, a 4500 foot gain, at night in what figures to be zero degree temps. (If not, I'll have to charge for a few hours on generator, which won't be fun in the cold.) From Molas it is an easy downhill stretch to Silverton where the motel has a 240 V L6-30 plug I can use with an adapter. The sparkling clear sunny weather made the drive though the mountains gorgeous, as you know from your experience. Quite the adventure!

dgpcolorado said:

Quite the adventure!

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Yes, and that's part of the fun! Godspeed to you on your drive home.

It's great to know that there's a helpful motel owner in Silverton. Your trip reports are always a pleasure to read. I do hope to be able to make it back to the Million Dollar Highway eventually!

With this cold snap, we've been seeing three temperature bars more regularly. This morning the LEAF still had three temp bars even after a couple of hours of charging. Regen was further reduced, but not that dramatically. It went up to four bars after several miles of mountain driving. The range drops some in the cold, but as predicted by Tony's range chart, it's really not that dramatic unless you crank up the heater.

Getting to church involved climbing a very icy side street with a significant incline. I never install tire chains unless required to by law, and didn't have them on. Still, as long as we maintained forward momentum, the car did fine. The tires slipped here and there and the traction control light flashed, but we made it up. (We exited a different way.)

abasile said:

With this cold snap, we've been seeing three temperature bars more regularly. This morning the LEAF still had three temp bars even after a couple of hours of charging. Regen was further reduced, but not that dramatically. It went up to four bars after several miles of mountain driving. The range drops some in the cold, but as predicted by Tony's range chart, it's really not that dramatic unless you crank up the heater.

Getting to church involved climbing a very icy side street with a significant incline. I never install tire chains unless required to by law, and didn't have them on. Still, as long as we maintained forward momentum, the car did fine. The tires slipped here and there and the traction control light flashed, but we made it up. (We exited a different way.)

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What temps have you been seeing?

GRA said:

What temps have you been seeing?

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It's been in the teens at night and 20s during the day.

This morning the car had three temperature bars again, and I got almost zero regen going down to the Valley starting at 65% SOC (gids). The friction brakes were used quite a bit. I still had only three temp bars when I got down to work, not a surprise since the parking lot had patches of ice. I picked up an "emergency" charge at work (upper management doesn't let me charge regularly) and let it charge to full (got "90.3%" this time). This allowed me to drive faster going home; I drove 65 mph on the freeway and then on the mountain road pulled out for a faster vehicle only once. Arrived home with five temperature bars and an outside temperature of 21 degrees with high winds.

Tomorrow I'm thinking of leaving the mountain without charging; the car is at about 28% right now. I want to see how much regen I can get in a different set of conditions (low temp and low SOC). When time allows (which it didn't today), I can use my bicycle to shuttle the car to a public EVSE for part of the workday.

^ Three temp bars to five was a pretty good climb!

I did see much the same thing when I left Silverton the week before last: I had one temp bar (but was on the cusp of two I think) and picked up the second in two miles of climbing, had three by the top of Red Mountain Pass (about 1700 feet of gain) and got the fourth temp bar with major regen going down the other side.


It has been cold here also: 9ºF was the high yesterday and the low last night was -14ºF! But clouds have moved in so it has warmed up to a toasty 15ºF now. I need to run down to town, at least cold snow has better traction than warm snow. I did finally buy some chains but haven't had to use them yet—traction mats have been enough to get me up my steep driveway.

dgpcolorado, that is some real cold! My early 2011 LEAF without the battery warmer could truly be at risk if parked outside your home. That said, as a backcountry skier, I love dry, cold snow. I wouldn't mind if we got some big dumps of snow coupled with temperatures no higher than the teens and 20s for the next couple of months. Where we live is about as close to Colorado as we'll be able to get for the foreseeable future.

Before work today, I charged the LEAF only minimally, mainly because I wanted to pre-heat it. This morning's temperature was 32 at our house (warmer than expected) and the LEAF had four temperature bars. I left the house with 33% charge (gids) and started the big descent at 32%. Reached the bottom of the mountain with 46% indicated, not bad for a cold battery! I would start at a lower SOC every day if access to charging at/near work were more available/convenient...

Haven't posted here for a while, so I thought I'd report on our latest gid count and range. We've definitely lost some range since the car was new, probably somewhere in the ballpark of 10%. However, considering that our LEAF is two years old with 32K miles and is driven down and up a big mountain several times per week, I'm happy that the battery is holding up as well as it is. Today my wife charged to 100% at a location 42 miles away from our home and 4500 feet lower. The car reported 91.8% in gids, the highest we've seen in a while. With careful driving, I expect she'll make it home with the SOC somewhere between the two "low battery" warnings. EDIT: Actually, the car reported about 20% in gids when she arrived home, not bad!

Just checking in again. Now our LEAF has passed 40,400 miles, and it continues to be driven down the mountain regularly for my commute and for other purposes. We are back into autumn weather, with nighttime lows in the low 40s and some colors on the oaks here.

The LEAF's battery capacity took another, significant hit this past summer, dropping to 197 gids at 80% charge which is a reported 15% loss (total) compared to new. Compared to LEAFs in warmer Southern California locations, without the benefit of cooling off every night in the mountains, we're doing pretty well. Still, we've hit seven temperature bars on a few occasions this year, primarily after fast charging, and exposed the LEAF to a fair amount of Valley heat. I've also been a little less conservative with my speed when climbing the mountain. A more heat-tolerant battery chemistry, and/or active thermal management, truly is needed in the LEAF.

On the other hand, our LEAF has been virtually trouble-free. Aside from a couple of firmware updates and annual battery checks, it's only been to the dealer for a cracked charge port lever (noticed that early on) and, recently, a non-functioning seatbelt buckle. I think the 2011 LEAF is quite well designed for a first-generation car, and the LEAF is getting better with each model year.

abasile said:

Just checking in again. Now our LEAF has passed 40,400 miles, and it continues to be driven down the mountain regularly for my commute and for other purposes. We are back into autumn weather, with nighttime lows in the low 40s and some colors on the oaks here.

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40,000 miles is impressive. If you can, please submit your stats to Stoaty for the battery aging model. The more data samples the better.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think those with 2013s that have had a plethora of problems might dispute that... :lol:

abasile said:

I think the 2011 LEAF is quite well designed for a first-generation car, and the LEAF is getting better with each model year.

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KJD said:

If you can, please submit your stats to Stoaty for the battery aging model. The more data samples the better.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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I should order a cable/adaptor so that I can use the Battery App before losing the top capacity bar, and give Stoaty the data he's requesting. (I confess that I've been content with my trusty GID meter assembled by Gary G. and haven't been sufficiently motivated to acquire my own Android device or cable, but I intend to.)

TomT said:

abasile said:

I think the 2011 LEAF is quite well designed for a first-generation car, and the LEAF is getting better with each model year.

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I think those with 2013s that have had a plethora of problems might dispute that... :lol:

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You have a point there. Hopefully they'll get those glitches, which appear to be related to moving production to Tennessee, sorted out very soon. However, the 2013 LEAF is definitely improved in that it offers 'B' mode regen and 6 kW charging, features that would be of use to me.

In general, I have not been fastidious about data collection like some folks here. However, it's probably worth a quick update to share where our LEAF's battery capacity stands after three years and 47K miles of driving, the majority in SoCal's San Bernardino Mountains.

When we first picked up our LEAF from Fontana Nissan in 2011, with a full charge, we had to take the longer route home via CA-18 because CA-330 was closed at the time. The drive was at least seven miles longer the way we took, with more elevation changes. We arrived home with "three bars" of charge, which went up to "four bars" after 1.5 hours of trickle charging.

Last night we also left Fontana Nissan with a full charge from their AV L2 charging docks and six battery temperature bars. In fairness, the battery pack was probably a bit out of balance, as our GID meter reported "77.2%" when the charge stopped. We took the most direct route home, using the 210 freeway and CA-330, 31.6 miles in total. We kept our freeway speed to 55 mph and ascended the mountain at about 35 mph (with a few turnouts to let other vehicles pass). We reached home with "14.5%" indicated on the GID meter, which immediately dropped to "13.8%" when we plugged the car in. This was probably slightly lower because of intermittent cross-winds on the drive, but not very different from other, recent drives home after charging at Fontana Nissan.

The bottom line is that if we were to replicate the original, longer drive home done on 4/20/2011, we'd be risking running out of charge. That's a far cry from making it home with "3 bars" of charge, somewhere above "30%" in GIDs. If anything, I suspect our current capacity loss (judging by GIDs at "80%" charge) is somewhat understated.

It's also worth mentioning that I commuted to an employer down in Redlands for nearly two years using the LEAF (well, mostly, as I often biked part of the commute). The battery pack's average temperature was certainly warmer than if all of those miles had been at elevation.

Just found out today that our LEAF is not the only one in the San Bernardino Mountains! We were in Big Bear today and ended up chatting with another LEAF owner who lives there. He's been living up here for less than a year and just uses the LEAF to drive around the Big Bear area, never down the mountain like we do. He says he knows of one other LEAF owner in Big Bear.

In terms of battery degradation, this is the best area in Southern California for the LEAF. For the last few months since I stopped commuting down the mountain daily, our LEAF's battery capacity has dropped only slightly - we're definitely noticing the difference. It's almost as if it's in a state of arrested decay.

In recent days, we used the LEAF and our hiking shoes for a trip to Fisherman's Camp, a backcountry spot along Deep Creek. The water level was lower this year, but still high enough for some cold swimming.


The roundtrip involved eight miles of careful driving on Forest Service dirt roads, including a heavily-used crossing of Crab Creek. Of course, the LEAF came home quite dusty.


Unfortunately, the "splash shield" under the LEAF bit the dust. Over the past three years it's been scraped and torn on occasion. While it didn't come into contact with any rocks on this drive, the force of the water in the stream crossings greatly worsened the existing tears.


At the moment it's sort of bungee corded together. The dealer quoted me $258 parts/labor for a new one when I went in for the annual battery check today (all 5 stars...). Truth be told, I'm not about to stop using the LEAF on our local dirt roads, and I'd prefer something more durable from the aftermarket if possible. I have some research to do.

abasile said:

At the moment it's sort of bungee corded together. The dealer quoted me $258 parts/labor for a new one when I went in for the annual battery check today (all 5 stars...). Truth be told, I'm not about to stop using the LEAF on our local dirt roads, and I'd prefer something more durable from the aftermarket if possible. I have some research to do.

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Look at rally-style skidplates. You'll need to fab your own from 1/16-3/16" aluminum plate. Cost for raw material will be anywhere from free to $200 or so. Then you'll have to trim the plate to fit and bend to approximate the stock underpanel shape. Will be challenging to punch out the vents that the stock underpanel has.

Expect some increase in noise over stock.

Tony's thread here has good pics: Underneath the Beast; a Tour of the Dark Side

drees said:

Look at rally-style skidplates. You'll need to fab your own from 1/16-3/16" aluminum plate. Cost for raw material will be anywhere from free to $200 or so. Then you'll have to trim the plate to fit and bend to approximate the stock underpanel shape. Will be challenging to punch out the vents that the stock underpanel has.

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Thanks for the pointers. This would probably be more work than I'm prepared for, but on the other hand, with an additional bungee cord in place the LEAF should be fine until winter provided we drive carefully and avoid Crab Creek. ;-) (Some of the prior damage to the underbody cover came from driving over hard ice.) If I don't get an alternative worked out by October or November, I can always go with another stock underbody panel.

drees said:

Tony's thread here has good pics: Underneath the Beast; a Tour of the Dark Side

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That's a great link! I'd forgotten that thread was so detailed.

Over the weekend I received a PM from someone near west LA inquiring about the feasibility of using a LEAF to drive to Big Bear regularly, with a "quick charge" stop in the San Bernardino area. Most of my response is copied (and genericized) below for others who might be interested.

First, the quick chargers at the San Bernardino and Redlands Nissan dealers have been down as far as I'm aware. Even if they are back up, those dealers are not generally good about maintaining them. Thankfully, there is a Blink quick charger at a 7/Eleven store just off the 10 freeway in San Bernardino, and Fontana Nissan also has a quick charger. For an extra $5, you might prefer Fontana Nissan over hanging out at a 7/Eleven (the immediate area is okay, but 7/Eleven draws iffy characters at times). Fontana is further from the base of the mountain, but due to its higher elevation (above 1500' feet) it doesn't take a huge amount of charge to drive to the base of CA-330 from there.

There are some real challenges you should keep in mind. One word of caution about CHAdeMO quick chargers in general is that they are single units, not like Tesla Superchargers where there are a number of units at each location. So if a given quick charger is down, you want to have a backup plan. Also, to charge to 80% typically takes more like 30 minutes, not 20 minutes. For the climb to Big Bear, you'd probably want closer to a full charge which could take closer to an hour. Keep in mind this is with a new LEAF. After some normal battery capacity loss, you might need to stop along the way for more charge. My PlugShare-listed EVSE in Arrowbear is currently the only option (you're more than welcome, but others in the car might not be too happy having to stop). In addition, depending on starting point, you might have to be careful to conserve charge on the long drive to the base of the mountain, given the distance and elevation gain.

In summary, driving from the LA area to Big Bear Lake is doable in a LEAF with some dedication and extra time, but it might not be something you'd want to do very often. Of course, the Tesla Model S (or upcoming Model X) could do it with great ease. The soon to be discontinued Rav4 EV might be able to make it up on a single "range" charge with some caution. With a break for a nice dinner along the way at a charging location, it might be quite easy in a Rav4 EV even without fast charging. The downside is that this vehicle is a Toyota compliance car and you would be supporting a company that is not apparently interested in building EVs right now.

If you have another car that could be used for the drive up the mountain, then I would recommend acquiring a LEAF for reasonable daily use. While you could try using the LEAF for accessing the mountains, it would be best if you aren't left "stuck" having to travel this way. For our family's trips down to the Los Angeles area, we prefer to use our LEAF when we can, but it is good to know that we can fall back on a gasoline car (Prius) when we don't have the extra time or inclination to take the LEAF. (Yes, the Prius is a Toyota, but it was purchased several years ago.)

abasile and others... Thanks so much for all of this detailed info. I'm thinking about driving my new Leaf from Simi Valley to Lake Arrowhead.

I could leave with 90%+ to go to a QC about 60 miles away... http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/13998" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (free w/ No Charge to Charge)

Then was thinking about using the QC at 7-11 in San Bernadino before going up the mountain... http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/3153" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (looks to be functioning from Plugshare comments)

Thoughts?

LeafMuranoDriver said:

Then was thinking about using the QC at 7-11 in San Bernadino before going up the mountain... http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/3153" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (looks to be functioning from Plugshare comments)

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This should be comparatively easy in a 2015 LEAF, given the relatively new battery.

Try to get a 90% charge in San Bernardino (that's generally the most the 7/Eleven Blink will give you) even if you have to wait longer. You can never have "too much" charge before coming up here.

Do you have a place to charge in the Lake Arrowhead area? You probably won't need it unless you want to drive around while you're up here, though. You're welcome to charge at my place if you decide to head toward Big Bear. If you need to conserve your charge, then slow down and use turnouts where appropriate to let others pass. Going more slowly on downhill sections will give you more regenerative braking.

Enjoy the trip, and take advantage of the "free" charging! (For us, those quick chargers are as expensive as driving a gas guzzler, though we still use them from time to time.)