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UBUYGAS

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
1,368
Location
Central NJ
.....Install my own panels?

My next door neighbor is a Master Electrician with 30 years experience.

I got my LEAF 4/20/13, From 4/2013 to 4/2014 I used 14,266 KWH and paid around $2800.00

SolarCity says they can install a 6.75KWH system with 18 panels and take off 55% of my electrical bill with no out of pocket costs for me but I will be locked in with their panels for 20 years.


Does this sound like a good deal?

I'm afraid that in 3 to 5 years the price of the panels are going to go down so much that I can do my whole roof for $10,000.00



What would it cost me in materials to install 18 panels on my own?

TIA,

Sal
 
We went with solar city before the full rebates and have been very happy with them.
I think that doing it yourself would be the best if you have the cash. Solar city option puts the panels on the roof now, waiting for the future is lost savings and extra unclean power used.
 
If you lease from Solar City, be aware that if you need to sell the house, you may have a hard time finding somebody to agree to take over your lease monthly payment, unless it's a prepaid lease.

The 30% Federal tax credit ends in 2016, 2 years away. There's no telling if they're going to extend it out further or not. So if you want to go solar, don't wait too long.

I don't think solar panels are going to be so cheap in 3 to 5 years that you can do your whole roof for $10K. Without the 30% federal tax credit today, solar is not affordable/justifiable to most people.

Solar installation is not just about electrical work where you can simply seek advice from your master electrician neighbor and that's all she wrote. It's dangerous back breaking work carrying heavy panels on the roof and doing dangerous walks on the roof all day long to do installation. Some local government requires professional installation as well.
 
You can DIY for less than $2.00 a watt before any incentives. So a 7,000 watt system would be less than $14,000. With a neighbor like that the electrical wil be the easy part. If you are comfortable working on your roof and are mechanically inclined assembly is something you can figure our pretty easily. It takes a little bit of skill to layout the roof mounts so your lag bolts hit the trusses and installing the flashing. There is another thread that with a good walk trough of someone's system.

So DIY is definitely an option but I think you really need to get quotes from local installers. They will also let you know what kind of financing options you have. In WA we have a great credit union that offers 4.5% 15 year solar solara PV loans that are really easy to get.

I would expect that you should be able to get a fully installed system for under $3.50 a watt.

Please let us know what you decide and what kind of formulas you use to make that decision. I'm just not sure leasing is a good deal/idea unless you can't get financing.
 
Thanks all for your replies.

What about some kit like this?

http://www.gogreensolar.com/products/6000w-complete-solar-system-kit-enphase-microinverter?s=recomatic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I either install it myself with my neighbor or find an installer like the guy mentions on the video on that page.
 
You can build a system for less than that Go Green Solar kit. QueenBee on this forum helped me immensely with getting my system built.
 
Thanks. Maybe QueenBee can post some URLs to sites where I can research/buy the equipment.


megalo said:
You can build a system for less than that Go Green Solar kit. QueenBee on this forum helped me immensely with getting my system built.
 
I just wanted to add that I went with a 20yr lease from SolarCity. I chose to go prepaid due to concerns about selling the house etc. It only cost me $4,030 for a 4.32kW system for 20 years. They've been easy to deal with and even proactively came out to replace the inverter when half of the input on it had failed (they could tell from their remote monitoring before I was aware of it).
 
Devin said:
I just wanted to add that I went with a 20yr lease from SolarCity. I chose to go prepaid due to concerns about selling the house etc. It only cost me $4,030 for a 4.32kW system for 20 years. They've been easy to deal with and even proactively came out to replace the inverter when half of the input on it had failed (they could tell from their remote monitoring before I was aware of it).

So the total cost of the system was $4,030 and you get to use all the electricity it produces for free?
 
They told me that they can put 6.75kW on my roof (and maybe more, they want an onsite inspection first to see if they can put more)

They said that there were two options, 2.99% and Zero% and with my credit I can choose Zero%, I have no idea what that means.

And they said that they should be able to offset 55% of my bill.

I pay around $2800 a year for electricity. 55% is $1540.00, So I would pay roughly $105 a month for electricity.

I'm supposed to have an online conference with the salesman Friday. So they can explain everything.

My two major concerns are:
1. In 5 years can install 10kW on my roof for $10,000.00? and now I'll be stuck with this SolarCity 20 year account.
2. What if I want to sell my house in 17 years and I can't find anybody that wants to buy a house with a contract with Solar city.

I'd like to see what it would cost to install my own system, I have a neighbor that is an electrician and he's very interested in doing it for his house as well.


Devin said:
I just wanted to add that I went with a 20yr lease from SolarCity. I chose to go prepaid due to concerns about selling the house etc. It only cost me $4,030 for a 4.32kW system for 20 years. They've been easy to deal with and even proactively came out to replace the inverter when half of the input on it had failed (they could tell from their remote monitoring before I was aware of it).
 
QueenBee said:
So the total cost of the system was $4,030 and you get to use all the electricity it produces for free?

Before installing mine I called SolarCity. They wanted $7000 from me for a 4kW system. The $7000 was a deal breaker, it cost me $9300 for 5.7kW I installed myself, with your help. The sales guy told me that after installation I would buy the electricity from SolarCity at a lower price than the utility. Our utility rate was about 7.5 cents is about 8 cents now.
 
Lasareath said:
2. What if I want to sell my house in 17 years and I can't find anybody that wants to buy a house with a contract with Solar city.
Simple on that one. You build the lease termination fees into your house price, or eat it when you sell.

It depends on the home buyer of course, but in today's climate I've found that to most a PV system would only be a minor plus, and ONLY if it was paid off.
 
The least expensive cost is to buy the system, vs leasing, but the particulars will vary with your location and utility pricing structure. In a tiered pricing area like Southern California, for a leased system you will pay a fixed price per kilowatt hour generated somewhere around your second tier. A "zero cost" system (basically zero down) will also have annual price escalations during the lease period. You'll need a local company to get the specifics for your area.

I recently installed a 7000W system ground-mount system for a friend. The total price for all equipment, permits, and engineering for the rack foundation was $20,600. Roof-mount would have been less expensive, but orientation, configuration, and a clutter of skylights, vents and two A/C units made the ground-mount system more practical. I expected improved production because of the better cooling, but coupled with Enphase micro-inverters, their daily production has consistently exceeded our home's 6900W single inverter system output by almost 10%. Especially where municipalities and electricians are new to high-voltage DC power, the 240V AC micro-inverter are simpler to install, easier to monitor, and simpler to trouble-shoot.
 
QueenBee said:
Devin said:
I just wanted to add that I went with a 20yr lease from SolarCity. I chose to go prepaid due to concerns about selling the house etc. It only cost me $4,030 for a 4.32kW system for 20 years. They've been easy to deal with and even proactively came out to replace the inverter when half of the input on it had failed (they could tell from their remote monitoring before I was aware of it).

So the total cost of the system was $4,030 and you get to use all the electricity it produces for free?
Yep. They even sent me a $15 "performance guarantee" cheque this year to make up for the reduction in generation as a result of the inverter problem.
 
Devin said:
QueenBee said:
Devin said:
I just wanted to add that I went with a 20yr lease from SolarCity. I chose to go prepaid due to concerns about selling the house etc. It only cost me $4,030 for a 4.32kW system for 20 years. They've been easy to deal with and even proactively came out to replace the inverter when half of the input on it had failed (they could tell from their remote monitoring before I was aware of it).

So the total cost of the system was $4,030 and you get to use all the electricity it produces for free?
Yep. They even sent me a $15 "performance guarantee" cheque this year to make up for the reduction in generation as a result of the inverter problem.

Hmm, the California incentives were too difficult for me to figure out quickly so I'm not sure how big of a factor they were in that price but that's the kind of price that is too good to be true :) I wonder what kind of trickery they are doing.
 
QueenBee said:
So the total cost of the system was $4,030 and you get to use all the electricity it produces for free?

Hmm, the California incentives were too difficult for me to figure out quickly so I'm not sure how big of a factor they were in that price but that's the kind of price that is too good to be true :) I wonder what kind of trickery they are doing.

They use two or three kinds of legal "trickery," although I'm not sure that the third one is entirely kosher. First, they assign the contracts, which are technically power purchase agreements, rather than leases, to companies, like Google, that need tax credits to offset their tax liabilities. Second, they can write off depreciation on the installation, something which homeowners can't do. Third, they may well be overstating their costs to obtain higher tax credits. In my case, the papers they submitted claimed costs of nearly $20k, although I paid only $9k.

I had SC install a 3.6kW system two years ago, when California's incentives had declined quite a bit. [They're gone now.] It still cost me $9,000 on a fully pre-paid system, which I thought was a good price. Devin must have gotten his system before 2012. I haven't paid any electricity bills for the past two years. The system has given me "free" charging for my LEAF and "free" heating for my hot tub, as well as "free" power for my house.
 
oakwcj said:
QueenBee said:
So the total cost of the system was $4,030 and you get to use all the electricity it produces for free?

Hmm, the California incentives were too difficult for me to figure out quickly so I'm not sure how big of a factor they were in that price but that's the kind of price that is too good to be true :) I wonder what kind of trickery they are doing.

They use two or three kinds of legal "trickery," although I'm not sure that the third one is entirely kosher. First, they assign the contracts, which are technically power purchase agreements, rather than leases, to companies, like Google, that need tax credits to offset their tax liabilities. Second, they can write off depreciation on the installation, something which homeowners can't do. Third, they may well be overstating their costs to obtain higher tax credits. In my case, the papers they submitted claimed costs of nearly $20k, although I paid only $9k.

I had SC install a 3.6kW system two years ago, when California's incentives had declined quite a bit. [They're gone now.] It still cost me $9,000 on a fully pre-paid system, which I thought was a good price. Devin must have gotten his system before 2012. I haven't paid any electricity bills for the past two years. The system has given me "free" charging for my LEAF and "free" heating for my hot tub, as well as "free" power for my house.

In any case it sure seems to add up to a dang good deal for the homeowner.
 
QueenBee said:
oakwcj said:
It still cost me $9,000 on a fully pre-paid system, which I thought was a good price. I haven't paid any electricity bills for the past two years. The system has given me "free" charging for my LEAF and "free" heating for my hot tub, as well as "free" power for my house.

In any case it sure seems to add up to a dang good deal for the homeowner.

$9000 for a 20 years lease is $37.5 a month. A 3.6kW produces about 6500 kWh a year or 540 kWH a month. That results in about 7 cents per kWh. Not bad for California. The lower production in the Pacific NW and cheaper electricity make the SC deal a ... no deal.
 
camasleaf said:
QueenBee said:
oakwcj said:
It still cost me $9,000 on a fully pre-paid system, which I thought was a good price. I haven't paid any electricity bills for the past two years. The system has given me "free" charging for my LEAF and "free" heating for my hot tub, as well as "free" power for my house.

In any case it sure seems to add up to a dang good deal for the homeowner.

$9000 for a 20 years lease is $37.5 a month. A 3.6kW produces about 6500 kWh a year or 540 kWH a month. That results in about 7 cents per kWh. Not bad for California. The lower production in the Pacific NW and cheaper electricity make the SC deal a ... no deal.

It's actually more favorable than that, because I'm on a TOU rate schedule. My system produces electricity during peak periods and I charge during off-peak. So, even though I consume more than I produce, I still have a $0 bill.
 
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