Chademo vs SAE

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Just because Tesla has opened up their patents doesn't mean that others can commercialize Tesla's IP for free....Notice that there was no talk of licensing arrangements?
 
NYLEAF said:
GRA said:
I have seen no evidence at all that not knowing which standard to back was holding up QC installations.
NY State has said that they have not installed Quick Chargers at the Service Plazas on the NYS Thruway because of the uncertainty with charging standards. They are waiting to see which standard "wins".
Was that before dual chargers were available?

http://insideevs.com/abb-launches-sae-combo-chademo-terra-53-fast-charger-in-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ABB-Terra-Smart-Connect-Duo.jpg
 
scottf200 said:
NYLEAF said:
GRA said:
I have seen no evidence at all that not knowing which standard to back was holding up QC installations.
NY State has said that they have not installed Quick Chargers at the Service Plazas on the NYS Thruway because of the uncertainty with charging standards. They are waiting to see which standard "wins".
Was that before dual chargers were available?

Does anybody have a price on one of these bad boys? I'm guessing at least double the price of a single CHAdeMO charger from Nissan ($15k).
 
The contact person over the two dual format QC's in Orange county could tell you. He's bee pretty quick when ever someone has had an inquiry.
 
TonyWilliams said:
scottf200 said:
NYLEAF said:
NY State has said that they have not installed Quick Chargers at the Service Plazas on the NYS Thruway because of the uncertainty with charging standards. They are waiting to see which standard "wins".
Was that before dual chargers were available?

Does anybody have a price on one of these bad boys? I'm guessing at least double the price of a single CHAdeMO charger from Nissan ($15k).
I can't remember where I read it so can't provide a link, but the cost of a dual-standard charger was said to be about 5-10% higher than a single standard. For NYLEAF, has New York state shown any great interest in installing _any_ kind of public charging equipment, whether EVSEs or QCs, or have most of them been done by local governments and/or private concerns?
 
I'm thinking about purchasing a place which is the entrance to wine country in the area.the building has more than enough power to support a couple of quick Chargers actually but if I were to try one I wonder what the return on investment would be. I could use it for myself I suppose to. does one invite another company has to set up a charger there? Why the need for all the fobs and cards why not a simple credit card reader? too many islands with their own cards and system. Does anyone have any leads on which company could do this?
 
kieranmullen said:
I'm thinking about purchasing a place which is the entrance to wine country in the area.the building has more than enough power to support a couple of quick Chargers actually but if I were to try one I wonder what the return on investment would be. I could use it for myself I suppose to. does one invite another company has to set up a charger there? Why the need for all the fobs and cards why not a simple credit card reader? too many islands with their own cards and system. Does anyone have any leads on which company could do this?
Tony Williams could tell you a lot, and I expect so could this company/guy:

http://sunspeedenterprises.com/the-pacific-coast-suntrail-route/ptreyes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, there's a guy in the Modesto area who has his own, private CHAdeMO QC, which he's happy to let others use if you let him know you're coming. It's listed on Plugshare as 'Ray Main Sales', phone number is (209) 681-2772.
 
kieranmullen said:
I'm thinking about purchasing a place which is the entrance to wine country in the area.the building has more than enough power to support a couple of quick Chargers actually but if I were to try one I wonder what the return on investment would be. I could use it for myself I suppose to. does one invite another company has to set up a charger there? Why the need for all the fobs and cards why not a simple credit card reader? too many islands with their own cards and system. Does anyone have any leads on which company could do this?

The average price to install a Nissan DC FC is $49K, according to Nissan.

If someone else is doing the billing, then you need to split revenue with them.

How much would you bill per minute or per charge? What would a rough estimate be of your overall revenue?

It's tough to see a positive cashflow if you're paying for everything (equipment, installation, energy bill, insurance, maintenance, billing fees)...
 
GRA said:
I can't remember where I read it so can't provide a link, but the cost of a dual-standard charger was said to be about 5-10% higher than a single standard.

Yes, I'm aware of the talking points, but things aren't looking so rosy for the future of either CHAdeMO or the CCS standard (after BMW and Nissan met with Tesla about Superchargers).

Again, I seriously doubt that the ABB dual plug charger is 15% more than the $15k Nissan one.
 
kieranmullen said:
I'm thinking about purchasing a place which is the entrance to wine country in the area.the building has more than enough power to support a couple of quick Chargers actually but if I were to try one I wonder what the return on investment would be. I could use it for myself I suppose to. does one invite another company has to set up a charger there?

First, tell me the budget for this project and I'll see what I can pencil out.
 
Well I have 400 Amp and 480V I can buy cash. I just would like a positive ROI but I wonder how long?

Wine country starts there...

1345 SW Fern Hill Rd

Forest Grove, OR 97116
 
hill said:
The contact person over the two dual format QC's in Orange county could tell you. He's bee pretty quick when ever someone has had an inquiry.
Looks like this is the station that the OC dual-plug stations use:
http://www.btcpower.com/products-and-applications/EV-Fast-Charger/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Appear to be available in 25 kW and 50 kW versions.
 
kieranmullen said:
$49k OK let me see what the roi is on that...never?
Discussion about how much to charge and ongoing costs for DC FCs has been discussed numerous times here. I haven't followed all of them (no time).

Besides the cost per kWh (which isn't low in CA), many utilities hit hard w/demand charges, which are common on commercial power plans (even outside CA) if you have over a certain amount of draw (once you cross a certain # of kW over a 15-minute window, IIRC). And, guess what? Over 20 kW DC FCs will trigger it on many (most?) utilities.

Example threads:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8854" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=285012#p285012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Car Charging Group bought Ecotality/Blink when they went bankrupt. There are a bunch of Blink CHAdeMO DC FCs in California and other states. See posts/threads below.

Read forward from this post: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=331916#p331916" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=366476#p366476" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also started a thread at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3753" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; re: L2 and DC FC station costs. I'm not sure if one exists here.
 
50ksqft grocery store nope... Otherwise what coffee stand ? Nope. Coffee would be out and back to the moon... actually did some math and roughly would take 6 Eiffel Tower tall of coffees to break even

I guess just hitch up some Level 2 units outside for free and call it a day. $25k maybe $50k nope
 
kieranmullen said:
50ksqft grocery store nope... Otherwise what coffee stand ? Nope. Coffee would be out and back to the moon... actually did some math and roughly would take 6 Eiffel Tower tall of coffees to break even

I guess just hitch up some Level 2 units outside for free and call it a day. $25k maybe $50k nope
Providing EVSEs and/or QCs is only justifiable as an advertising expense, like paved parking. You aren't going to see a reasonable ROI on charging fees anytime soon, if ever. If you're not going to generate more business at lower cost than other forms of advertising, then it makes no financial sense to do this. Which isn't to say you wouldn't do so anyway, just not for straight business reasons.
 
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