Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

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Elephanthead said:
I would wager I can rotate my leafs tires faster then you can get the dealer to do it even if they are already doing a battery check. It is probably a different guy and there is no way they do it at the same time in the same spot.
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it is not how fast you can do it with your equipment and experience, it is how fast i can do it with what I have in my garage.
i would rather pay to rotate the tires than pay someone to work in my yard.
 
Elephanthead said:
I would wager I can rotate my leafs tires faster then you can get the dealer to do it even if they are already doing a battery check. It is probably a different guy and there is no way they do it at the same time in the same spot.
Click to expand...

I can probably rotate my tires faster than many folks can drive to the dealer and back. Not only that, but when I'm finished the lug nuts will all be at the correct torque setting. I can't tell you how many times I've had them over-tightened at the hands of air-gun-happy shop mechanics. Even when getting new tires the first thing I do after getting home is to make sure they can be loosened, and then re-torque by hand to the specs.

Also, swapping the tires gives one a chance to get a good look at other components such as brakes, lines, suspension, dampers, bushings, CV joints… Maybe the shop mechanic is paying attention to these. Maybe not.
 
Zythryn said:
I suspect a large part of the issue is the GM dealer network.
Many dealers are indifferent to the Volt, while some are downright hostile. A few are enthusiastic, but they seem to be a small minority.
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The dealer culture could easily explain it. If dealerships start to dislike a model, it's unlikely to become a success. My previous car, the Mazda RX-8 was a lesson in this.

The RX-8 had some early reliability issues that weren't dealt with quickly enough. One of these was that the engine could easily be put into a non-recoverable flooded condition. This lead to a lot of angry owners coming to the dealerships for relief, and the dealerships not being able to do a lot to help other than purging the fuel, changing plugs, getting the car to run again and handing it back to the customer with the same inherent problem. And of course this had other effects such as fuel dilution of the oil and damage to the catalytic converter.

Not sure about GM culture but for Mazda at the time, the dealerships lived and died by the results of their customer surveys. As a result they weren't particularly happy to see the ratings coming in from the RX-8 owners. As things went from bad to worse, the dealerships actually began lobbying to have Mazda IGNORE the surveys from RX-8 owners. You can imagine how that went over with the owners… And you can imagine just how eager the dealership salespeople were, by that point, towards getting more RX-8 customers on the road. Sales faltered and dropped year after year despite a major mechanical revision for 2009.

On top of this, iirc, there were some issues on how the dealerships were being compensated for certain warranty work.

It's a complex ecosystem and the dealerships are very sensitive as to whether the situation with a model is tilted towards or away from their favor. You can be sure sales will be made to respond accordingly.

Due to EVs being a departure from the norm, the manufacturer has to go to great lengths to make sure the experience is positive not just for customers but for dealerships as well, to overcome the perceived "headaches".

While we've had legitimate gripes about how Nissan has handled certain issues, hindsight may well show that they did a commendable job overall in ushering in the modern EV.

USA+Mazda+RX-8+Sales+Chart+2003+To+2011.jpeg
 
Nubo said:
Elephanthead said:
I would wager I can rotate my leafs tires faster then you can get the dealer to do it even if they are already doing a battery check. It is probably a different guy and there is no way they do it at the same time in the same spot.
Click to expand...

I can probably rotate my tires faster than many folks can drive to the dealer and back. Not only that, but when I'm finished the lug nuts will all be at the correct torque setting. I can't tell you how many times I've had them over-tightened at the hands of air-gun-happy shop mechanics. Even when getting new tires the first thing I do after getting home is to make sure they can be loosened, and then re-torque by hand to the specs.

Also, swapping the tires gives one a chance to get a good look at other components such as brakes, lines, suspension, dampers, bushings, CV joints… Maybe the shop mechanic is paying attention to these. Maybe not.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And some people such as myself take some pride and joy in working on my own things.
 
Costco will only do it on tires purchased from them even if they are the tires that came with your car.

TomT said:
Costco does it for me (along with a wheel balance) for free... And even if I had to pay for it, my time is worth more than 20 bucks...

MikeinDenver said:
Tire rotations are easy to do at home with minimal equipment.
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All tires wear differently. Especially the front cornering tires. I tent to be zippy in the leaf in town when I am going 1 mile just to plug in.
See article
http://goo.gl/TOUwlc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnrhansen said:
If you think about it, just how much more life can you get out of your tires by rotating them?
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MikeinDenver said:
Nubo said:
Elephanthead said:
I would wager I can rotate my leafs tires faster then you can get the dealer to do it even if they are already doing a battery check. It is probably a different guy and there is no way they do it at the same time in the same spot.
Click to expand...

I can probably rotate my tires faster than many folks can drive to the dealer and back. Not only that, but when I'm finished the lug nuts will all be at the correct torque setting. I can't tell you how many times I've had them over-tightened at the hands of air-gun-happy shop mechanics. Even when getting new tires the first thing I do after getting home is to make sure they can be loosened, and then re-torque by hand to the specs.

Also, swapping the tires gives one a chance to get a good look at other components such as brakes, lines, suspension, dampers, bushings, CV joints… Maybe the shop mechanic is paying attention to these. Maybe not.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And some people such as myself take some pride and joy in working on my own things.
Click to expand...

What's more, many of us in cold climates keep two sets of tires anyway. I get two tire rotations per year for free when switching between snow tires and summer tires...
 
Elephanthead said:
I would wager I can rotate my leafs tires faster then you can get the dealer to do it even if they are already doing a battery check. It is probably a different guy and there is no way they do it at the same time in the same spot.
Click to expand...
Next time I'm due I'll pm you and you can come over and prove it. :D
 
DanCar said:
Pipcecil said:
If you follow the service manual - the volt is cheaper to maintain than the leaf is. But you always have people kipping maintenance and you have dealerships trying to squeeze you for more, so the service manual is a good mark.
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What makes you say that? How often do you have to check the oil level on a Leaf? How often do you have to burn off old gas in a leaf? http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-archive/2010/09/chevy-volt-programmed-to-handle-stale-gas-by-routinely-firing-up-generator.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For 18 months of usage of Leaf my service has been free: battery check and tire rotation, with no oil checking necessary. ;)
If the battery degradation issues are fixed or you live in a mild climate like I do, then you won't have to worry about standard hybrid issues, like timing belt repair, exhaust repair, transmission repair, smog check, etc...
Click to expand...

Ahh you are missing the key point - service manual maintenance - by the book. I know really well how this goes. My wife's volt is rotate tires every 7,500, which is the same as the Leafs, so that's even. But at 15,000 you flush the brakes and replace the cabin air filter. Volt? Nadda. You are already ~100 ahead every year because of that. At the 2 year mark on the Volt - change oil, $30 bucks at most. Nothing else done to the volt while you did 2 cabin filter replacements and 2 brake flushes on the leaf. At 45k (~3 years) you replace the engine filter (my wife's was cheap or not needed) and change automatic trans fluid and filter (not needed). Again nadda in price.

You don't change the spark plugs until 97,500. And the engine cooling system flush is done at 150,000. So just following the manual, the volt is way cheaper on maintenance. This has nothing to do with stuff that breaks down to repair. Yes the volt has more stuff to potentially break down. But if you take my micro comparison between my wife's volt and mine, the failure of my OBC+Battery Replacement has equaled more in repair cost than her volt (which has had minimal problems).
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Elephanthead said:
I would wager I can rotate my leafs tires faster then you can get the dealer to do it even if they are already doing a battery check. It is probably a different guy and there is no way they do it at the same time in the same spot.
Click to expand...
Next time I'm due I'll pm you and you can come over and prove it. :D
Click to expand...

I did it in 14 minutes once on my Prius and that included readjusting the air pressure. it is not that hard with two floor jacks and a pneumatic impact wrench
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I did it in 14 minutes once on my Prius and that included readjusting the air pressure. it is not that hard with two floor jacks and a pneumatic impact wrench
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It takes me about four hours to rotate the wheels on our LEAF! :oops:
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I did it in 14 minutes once on my Prius and that included readjusting the air pressure. it is not that hard with two floor jacks and a pneumatic impact wrench
Click to expand...
Ah, that's what I'm missing, a second floor jack... and a high speed balancer.
 
RegGuheert said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
I did it in 14 minutes once on my Prius and that included readjusting the air pressure. it is not that hard with two floor jacks and a pneumatic impact wrench
Click to expand...
It takes me about four hours to rotate the wheels on our LEAF! :oops:
Click to expand...
Hey...you can't stop to guzzle a brewsky every time you loosen a lug nut, man! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
TomT said:
Remember that even the Leaf has had at least one recall and campaign...
The Volt is actually ahead in this regard.

MikeinDenver said:
Give it time.
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I think that story is referring to -2014- recalls. The Volt has definitely had at least one recall in the past.
 
jhm614 said:
TomT said:
Remember that even the Leaf has had at least one recall and campaign...
The Volt is actually ahead in this regard.

MikeinDenver said:
Give it time.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I think that story is referring to -2014- recalls. The Volt has definitely had at least one recall in the past.
Click to expand...

http://www.cars.com/chevrolet/volt/2012/recalls" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
palmermd said:
jhm614 said:
MikeinDenver said:
Give it time.
Click to expand...
I think that story is referring to -2014- recalls. The Volt has definitely had at least one recall in the past.
Click to expand...

http://www.cars.com/chevrolet/volt/2012/recalls" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Click to expand...


Thanks, I thought they had but I am at work and didn't have time to research it.
 

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