Poll : Number of miles before losing the first bar

I lost my first bar in March at 51,908 miles (March 28, 2014 to be exact). LeafSpy readings the day after: AHr=54.91, SOH=83%, Hx=68.62% 4002 L2/L1's (I don't have a QC port).

Almost at 60,000 miles today (but don't have my current readings).

I think it would also be good to capture who of those who lost a bar at each level routinely use the long life mode (or other battery saving approach such as using the timer) vs. charging to 100% each time. I would like to know if I'm really having a meaningful impact on my battery life or am just inconveniencing myself when I realize too late that I need to make a longer trip and hadn't charged enough.

I've decided to avoid overheating the pack as my #1 priority. I charge to 80% (79% now) but don't worry about going to 100% as needed. I do avoid recharging immediately in hot weather or anytime I have 6 battery temp bars. Yesterday I charged to 100%, left shortly thereafter for a 65 mile trip, and when I got home with 22% left (and 6 temp bars) I let the car sit for about 7 hours before plugging in.

LeftieBiker said:

I've decided to avoid overheating the pack as my #1 priority. I charge to 80% (79% now) but don't worry about going to 100% as needed. I do avoid recharging immediately in hot weather or anytime I have 6 battery temp bars. Yesterday I charged to 100%, left shortly thereafter for a 65 mile trip, and when I got home with 22% left (and 6 temp bars) I let the car sit for about 7 hours before plugging in.

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its situations like this I wish we had some definitive data on. its my "feeling" that leaving the pack at low SOC should be minimized. 6 TBs should not be a concern but leaving it at 22% SOC should. I would have plugged it in for 60-90 mins first then let it sit until I was ready to plug it in for the next full charge

I lost my first bar after 20 months & 44,800 miles (yes I drive alot)

DaveinOlyWA said:

its situations like this I wish we had some definitive data on. its my "feeling" that leaving the pack at low SOC should be minimized. 6 TBs should not be a concern but leaving it at 22% SOC should.

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Anything above VLBW very likely to not be an issue. Basically when cell voltages drop below the "knee" is when bad things might start happening. And that's a big might as we don't know for sure without actually running tests.

What happens at very low SOC depends on the exact chemistry - so even tests on other lithium batteries may not be all that revealing. There could even be significant differences between '11-12 batteries, '13-14 batteries and '15 batteries.

With the LEAF cells, the knee is reached around 10% SOC which is around VLBW - when cell voltages are around 3.6V and pack voltage is around 345V. Below that cell voltages start dropping rapidly.

So IMO if you get down below VLBW you might consider charging enough to get back up over VLBW. But IMO unless you frequently get that low, I wouldn't worry about it because it generally very rarely happens. On the other hand, charging immediately vs delayed charging happens daily, along with charging to 80% or 100%. Personally, I would also not both charging back up if one is doing a lot of short trips until you are below 50%. Nissan recommends 80% before topping back up if charging to 100%.

Yes, it's my understanding that 20% or higher is fine for the low end, especially if only reached occasionally. I probably would plug in at 20% just to be safe, but I had 22% so I felt temp was more an issue.

Lost first bar today at 36,000 miles. 2011 car. Never rapid charged. Low daily miles. Portland Oregon car.

volcanoguy said:

Lost first bar today at 36,000 miles. 2011 car. Never rapid charged. Low daily miles. Portland Oregon car.

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time degradation looks to be the biggest part of your loss. how many months?

DaveinOlyWA said:

volcanoguy said:

Lost first bar today at 36,000 miles. 2011 car. Never rapid charged. Low daily miles. Portland Oregon car.

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time degradation looks to be the biggest part of your loss. how many months?

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Also, charging habits - 100% or 80% charging? If charging to 100%, how long is car left at 100% before driving?

36k miles in 3 years seems pretty average, not low in terms of daily miles. Probably around 25-30 miles/day if used as a commuter.

drees said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

volcanoguy said:

Lost first bar today at 36,000 miles. 2011 car. Never rapid charged. Low daily miles. Portland Oregon car.

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time degradation looks to be the biggest part of your loss. how many months?

Click to expand...

Also, charging habits - 100% or 80% charging? If charging to 100%, how long is car left at 100% before driving?

36k miles in 3 years seems pretty average, not low in terms of daily miles. Probably around 25-30 miles/day if used as a commuter.

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for Portland area degradation? seems a bit low in mileage for anything but time degradation

Maybe we should have a new poll? "Number of miles (or number of Ahrs) before losing the second bar"

With the timing of the software update last year, I lost my first bar very early (only 8,300 miles), but the second one is holding on a lot longer than expected. At 50.85 Ahrs and 16,300 miles, I expected it to drop quite a while ago.

DaveinOlyWA said:

volcanoguy said:

Lost first bar today at 36,000 miles. 2011 car. Never rapid charged. Low daily miles. Portland Oregon car.

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time degradation looks to be the biggest part of your loss. how many months?

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Approximately 40 months.

drees said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

volcanoguy said:

Lost first bar today at 36,000 miles. 2011 car. Never rapid charged. Low daily miles. Portland Oregon car.

Click to expand...

time degradation looks to be the biggest part of your loss. how many months?

Click to expand...

Also, charging habits - 100% or 80% charging? If charging to 100%, how long is car left at 100% before driving?

36k miles in 3 years seems pretty average, not low in terms of daily miles. Probably around 25-30 miles/day if used as a commuter.

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Yes it appears to be pretty average but I would have expected a little higher mileage before it lost first bar because I average only 20 miles a day and only charge every 3 to 5 days . I do charge to 100% nearly every time and the car is left at 100% for no longer than 30 minutes and often times for just a few minutes.

I blame my Leaf's apparently-imminent bar loss on last Summer: It was in the 90's when I leased the car, and we had something like twelve 90+ degree days last year. This Summer has been much milder.

Having just purchased a very low mileage 2011 Leaf with 12 bars, I would be curious what has been the longest time from manufacture date till loss of first bar since time is such a major factor in battery degradation. My Leaf is at 40 months with 12 bars. I'll probably lose it this month like VolcanoGuy did.

hopingforthebest said:

Having just purchased a very low mileage 2011 Leaf with 12 bars, I would be curious what has been the longest time from manufacture date till loss of first bar since time is such a major factor in battery degradation. My Leaf is at 40 months with 12 bars. I'll probably lose it this month like VolcanoGuy did.

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Mine is 38 months and 32k miles with 12 bars. Leaf Spy says I am at 88%, so likely spring before I am down to 11. It's a Portland area car.

I would also add number of months before losing the first bar, since batteries degrade over time not just mileage...

in its current form poll does not capture people that still have all 12 bars, my guess this is the largest group so maybe you can add option for that.

actually I would rework the poll (if possible) to look like this

Current number of the battery capacity bars:
-12
-11
-10
-9
-8
-battery replacement

Mileage when last bar was lost / battery replaced / current mileage for those with 12 bars:
0-10,000
10,001-20,000
20,001-30,000
30,001-40,000
40,001-50,000
50,001-60,000
60,001+

Months FROM the car manufacture date TO when the last bar was lost / battery replaced / current date for those with 12 bars:
0-6 months
6-12
12-18
18-24
24-30
30-36
36-42
42-48
48-54

for example my answers would be:
12 bars
0-10000 miles
6-12 months

Lost my first bar today. I had charged to 80% overnight, so I don't know what my 100% capacity would say.

Info:
2012 Leaf, built August 2011, purchased 11/8/2011. (5 weeks away from 3 years old of driving).
28,410 miles.
55.62 Ah
SOH 84%
Hx 70.40%
and 80% charge yielded me 196 Gids

Never quick charged (we only just got a few in my area this year). Usually charge to 80%, but charge to 100%
twice a month or so. No garage, parked in shade the majority of time (driveway gets about 3 hours of sunlight).

Still loving the car (but I had hoped losing the first bar would happen after 11/8!)

Hi Newbie here. I have a 2011, purchased in Oct of that year, I just lost my first bar yesterday at 70,00 km, (approx. 43,000 miles). I use either a trickle charge in the evenings or Normal (220V) during the day at work, never have used a rapid. I drive 35 km. (22 miles) each way to work and usually another 10-20 miles on local errands etc. I usually use the 80% method, and approx. 4-5 times a year will go to 100%. I rarely drop below 5 bars when plugging in. I'm currently at 6.3 km/Kwh on the guage which is 3.9 miles/Kwh.