Range Chart

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Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and having been reading all that I can over the last few weeks to learn as much as I can about the range of the Leaf. I'm very much an EV fan and am considering one as my next car. The range chart is very useful but I’d like to know if anyone has experience with how the elevation change penalty shown in the chart is proving out? Is it fairly accurate? I have a 4000/1000 ft gain/loss on my work commute. Because I have additional factors to consider (cold weather, high winds) I’m concerned the elevation range penalty coupled with the other factors would degrade the range to below my commute distance. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Cheers.
 
Why don't you give us the exact route, since temperature also plays a role, amongst other things.

The formula for the energy consumed to raise a 3350 pound car plus 450 pounds of pax/cargo is:

3800 pounds * 1000 feet elevation gain = 3,800,000 foot pounds

3,800,000 / 2,655,224 = 1.43kWh


1 kilowatt hour =
2,655,223.74 foot pounds
 
Here is my one way route. To the right of the middle peak elevation I traverse a wind farm that sees sustained 20 mph winds regularly throughout the year. The farm extends for approximately 15 miles and the wind is almost always directly south which is at my back on the way to work and head on during my trip home. Home is the peak on the left and work at the bottom right. My worst one way commute would be 25F, into a headwind of 25 mph, going uphill with snow in the twilight of a short winter day. I expect that if needed I could plug in at work but I'd prefer to be able to make the round trip without doing so. Also, given the high winds I could easily slow the commute to 55 or even 50 (painfull) on those days when the headwind is worst. And finally, the 5 miles on the left that has the highest max slope is usually driven at between 25 and 35 due to the road being windy.

JX1FVOJ.png
 
What I get out of this (post #1)

If I slowdown from 75 to 40, I double my range (60 to 120). That's pretty strong incentive to slow down in ANY car to save energy.
 
theaveng said:
What I get out of this:

If I slowdown from 75 to 40, I double my range (60 to 120). That's pretty strong incentive to slow down in ANY car to save energy.

And turning the heater off is another huge energy saver.

There's not much you can do about the weather or hills.
 
radioactiveboyscout said:
Here is my one way route. To the right of the middle peak elevation I traverse a wind farm that sees sustained 20 mph winds regularly throughout the year. The farm extends for approximately 15 miles and the wind is almost always directly south which is at my back on the way to work and head on during my trip home. Home is the peak on the left and work at the bottom right. My worst one way commute would be 25F, into a headwind of 25 mph, going uphill with snow in the twilight of a short winter day. I expect that if needed I could plug in at work but I'd prefer to be able to make the round trip without doing so. Also, given the high winds I could easily slow the commute to 55 or even 50 (painfull) on those days when the headwind is worst. And finally, the 5 miles on the left that has the highest max slope is usually driven at between 25 and 35 due to the road being windy.

JX1FVOJ.png


Based on my experience, this should be doable under all but the most adverse conditions, mostly really cold temps. You'll use little charge getting to work given the downhill and tailwind. I live in the southern San Joaquin Valley and have driven the Grapevine both ways numerous times, and it has similar elevations and winds, though not quite that cold usually. It's 48 miles from my home to the top of the Grapevine, with about 3,800 feet of elevation gain, and winds. Takes about 80% of the charge usually. This is with a relatively new Leaf. Older ones would have a more difficult time of it due to battery capacity loss. Also, how warm is it at work versus up the hill? If it's warm enough to warm the battery during the eight-hour workday, that may help your range.
 
Drove to a family members house with our family of 5 today and a little cargo. 56 miles each way. The first 5-6 miles at 35 mph, remaining miles at 55-60 mph. The leaf did really well. We started out at 258 GIDs (somehow 2 GIDS have returned in the last month). We arrived at 42% SOC, 110 GIDS remaining. Though the average read at 44 mph average and 5.1 Miles/Kwh, this was with AC running the entire ride. Without AC, would have been at or slightly above the magical mile per percent SOC.

Return (with more cargo - a case of beer in bottles and some gifts), was almost exactly equal. Left at 77% SOC, arrived at 20% SOC, average speed (55-60 for first 50 miles, then 6 at 35) was 46 mph. When exiting the freeway, we were at an average speed of 51 (the first few miles are hwy, not freeway, so have a few lights to stop and go at, but speed limit is 55, hence a slightly lower average speed). The efficiency when exiting the Freeway was 5.0-5.1. It makes be believe a new leaf (ours in just over 1 year old) should be able to pretty easily do 100 miles at temperate freeway speeds (55), especially with only 1 or 2 passengers.

Ambient temperature was between 75-79 in both directions, so pretty perfect battery wise. With 5 in the car, had to run the AC to keep the kids from complaining.
 
The leaf is pretty efficient at 55 mph when battery is between 60 and 80 F. Per earlier post, was able to maintain 5 m/Kwh with a full car and low AC. Just manage the hills carefully. Allow speed to drift down on way up, and drift up in the downhill. Keep power meter to 2 bubbles, only going to 3 in uphill.
 
Long time lurker, posting for first time. First off, I'd like to mention that this is a fantastic forum. It's always good to hear about experiences of other leaf drivers. Some day there will be a cheap 300 mile battery and all this will be irrelevant, but till then..

I compared my mileage to Tony's chart. The numbers don't even come close. My Leaf has about 10K miles. I charge to 80% everyday and my round trip commute is about 50 miles. At the end of the day, the GOM shows about 22 miles remaining, for an estimated total of 72 miles, give or take a few. Average speed is about 30 miles. Tony's chart says I should be getting about 100 miles. I haven't run the car to turtle, but the difference seems too large. Am I reading the chart incorrectly, or is my battery seriously degraded?

I've noticed that this total of 72 miles is more or less constant - from the time I start the trip to times when I've driven over 60 miles.

Anybody else have a similar experience?
 
msandeep said:
Long time lurker, posting for first time. First off, I'd like to mention that this is a fantastic forum. It's always good to hear about experiences of other leaf drivers. Some day there will be a cheap 300 mile battery and all this will be irrelevant, but till then..

I compared my mileage to Tony's chart. The numbers don't even come close. My Leaf has about 10K miles. I charge to 80% everyday and my round trip commute is about 50 miles. At the end of the day, the GOM shows about 22 miles remaining, for an estimated total of 72 miles, give or take a few. Average speed is about 30 miles. Tony's chart says I should be getting about 100 miles. I haven't run the car to turtle, but the difference seems too large. Am I reading the chart incorrectly, or is my battery seriously degraded?

I've noticed that this total of 72 miles is more or less constant - from the time I start the trip to times when I've driven over 60 miles.

Anybody else have a similar experience?

Note that the chart is based on a constant speed at x, not an average so if you are ever exceeding 30 mph or even stopping will bring that down. After a year and 10k miles you probably have some battery capacity loss which will also bring it down. Only charging to 80% is leaving ~15% capacity unused. You likely have some level of elevation differences which will bring it down. The use of GOM to determine how many miles is left will also leave some miles on the table as it is likely conservative. Add all those factors up and you are probably right where you should be.
 
msandeep said:
Long time lurker, posting for first time. First off, I'd like to mention that this is a fantastic forum. It's always good to hear about experiences of other leaf drivers. Some day there will be a cheap 300 mile battery and all this will be irrelevant, but till then..

I compared my mileage to Tony's chart. The numbers don't even come close. My Leaf has about 10K miles. I charge to 80% everyday and my round trip commute is about 50 miles. At the end of the day, the GOM shows about 22 miles remaining, for an estimated total of 72 miles, give or take a few. Average speed is about 30 miles. Tony's chart says I should be getting about 100 miles. I haven't run the car to turtle, but the difference seems too large. Am I reading the chart incorrectly, or is my battery seriously degraded?

I've noticed that this total of 72 miles is more or less constant - from the time I start the trip to times when I've driven over 60 miles.

Anybody else have a similar experience?

The problem is that you're using the GOM for something other than a random number generator. You can't add miles driven to the GOM to get total range.

Tony's chart does not use average speed, it uses constant speed. In the real world, no one drives at a perfectly constant speed, and most people don't drive on perfectly flat terrain, either. That's why you're seeing a discrepancy.
 
The speed variation may explain some of the difference. I was using the 1 year/10K degraded battery chart so the battery degradation should've been factored in. Anyway, the reality is that trip planning is usually done using the GOM. So if my GOM shows 20 miles remaining, I wouldn't make a 30 mile trip irrespective of what the chart says. Heck, I wouldn't even make a 20 mile trip - I do like to keep a few buffer miles.

I wonder if it's possible to collect actual mileage data from MNL users and build a statistical model around it. What I want to know is what my range will look like after 50K or 60K miles.

QueenBee said:
Note that the chart is based on a constant speed at x, not an average so if you are ever exceeding 30 mph or even stopping will bring that down. After a year and 10k miles you probably have some battery capacity loss which will also bring it down. Only charging to 80% is leaving ~15% capacity unused. You likely have some level of elevation differences which will bring it down. The use of GOM to determine how many miles is left will also leave some miles on the table as it is likely conservative. Add all those factors up and you are probably right where you should be.
 
NYLEAF said:
Tony's chart does not use average speed, it uses constant speed. In the real world, no one drives at a perfectly constant speed, and most people don't drive on perfectly flat terrain, either. That's why you're seeing a discrepancy.

I regularly use "constant speed" when traveling. I just click on the cruise control down the freeway. It works really good.

Yes, as noted, the chart has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOM... that is why, in part, that the Range Chart even exists.
 
It would be difficult to make a chart for average speed, there are so many variables. For example you could be on a country winding road slowly accelerating from 20 to 40 with no braking with an average of 30 compared to running surface streets with traffic lights running from heavy breaking and acceleration to 45 mph with an average of 30. When our car was new I tried to watch the average speed and somehow compare it to miles / kwh and it was all over the place depending on where and how my wife drove.
 
BrockWI said:
It would be difficult to make a chart for average speed, there are so many variables. For example you could be on a country winding road slowly accelerating from 20 to 40 with no braking with an average of 30 compared to running surface streets with traffic lights running from heavy breaking and acceleration to 45 mph with an average of 30. When our car was new I tried to watch the average speed and somehow compare it to miles / kwh and it was all over the place depending on where and how my wife drove.

We are well past that point in this forum's life where we just keep repeating things over and over. I know all these issues are covered in the thread. This is also covered in the chart where it clears notes "steady" speed, not average.

If I drove 93mph and then 1mph in equal time, my average is 47mph. I can tell you that the LEAF will drive much farther at 47mph steady (over 100 miles when new) and probably less than half that at the 47mph average I used above.

Since nobody knows the data used to derive your average, it wouldn't be possible to know the outcome. I wouldn't even want to try.
 
BrockWI said:
It would be difficult to make a chart for average speed, there are so many variables. For example you could be on a country winding road slowly accelerating from 20 to 40 with no braking with an average of 30 compared to running surface streets with traffic lights running from heavy breaking and acceleration to 45 mph with an average of 30. When our car was new I tried to watch the average speed and somehow compare it to miles / kwh and it was all over the place depending on where and how my wife drove.

My speed is mostly constant. Out of about 80 minute roundtrip drive, the maximum speed is 65 mph for about 10 mins at most. Remaining is mostly 25 to 30 mph. Typical Bay Area freeway speeds during commute hours in carpool lane.
 
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