LEAF Advisory Board, the sequel...

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adric22 said:
Nubo said:
ya, that is basically false. With a good analog dial I can tell my speed within 1mph without taking my eyes off the road. If I want to stare at it I can probably make out to within 0.1mph or less. I can also detect the rate of change quite nicely and catch drift long before a digital display clicks from one integral number to the next -- which can cover a 2mph spread. Second-order information such as rate of change is obscured by a digital readout.
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Keep in mind that every since around 1995, all speedometers are essentially digital behind the scenes, taking their information from the VSS (vehicle speed sensor). So the only reason the digital ones don't reflect the rate of change very well is because they are programmed not to update but once or twice per second.
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Of course, new vehicles are getting the info over CANbus but there's still a fundamental difference in information between a slewing dial and a numeric readout. Even if the numeric readout went to 2 decimal places and was updated on a millisecond basis, it would still take far more concentration to derive rate of change. Human perception is exquisitely tuned to notice changes in motion. Deriving second-order information from flashing numerals is an abstract exercise using different parts of the brain, and takes far more effort.
 
yes, the LEAF delivers a great deal of information about the surge in energy use when you accelerate, and that is all visually displayed in real time rather than digitized.
 
So if all vehicle speed sensors are digital, why are they not accurate? With GPS and simple software, it would be easy to self-calibrate.

Bob
 
Ironically, our old Acura did just that with a long-term average. You could even call up the diagnostics screen and see the amount of correction (it was typically something like minus 1.3%). But with an analogue speedometer display, it didn't make a whole lot of difference...

Bob said:
So if all vehicle speed sensors are digital, why are they not accurate? With GPS and simple software, it would be easy to self-calibrate.
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Bob said:
So if all vehicle speed sensors are digital, why are they not accurate? With GPS and simple software, it would be easy to self-calibrate.

Bob
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Almost all speedometers read conservatively high, either due to governmental regulations and/or OEM policy.
GPS indicated speed is not very accurate.
Pretty good on level ground, but quite a bit off going uphill or downhill.
You can observe the GPS inaccuracy using Waze.
Would be possible to adjust using GPS, but it would have to only use values while moving on level ground.

Correction edits are in italic.
 
I doubt that LEAF owners' perspectives on speedometers are all that unique relative to forum-posting vehicle owners in general. So I'd be skeptical that there's much for the Advisory Board to add to Nissan in this area.

On the other hand, EV-specific input relating to concerns such as battery capacity, driving range, charging options, etc., ought to be very relevant, IMO. ;-)
 
abasile said:
I doubt that LEAF owners' perspectives on speedometers are all that unique relative to forum-posting vehicle owners in general. So I'd be skeptical that there's much for the Advisory Board to add to Nissan in this area.

On the other hand, EV-specific input relating to concerns such as battery capacity, driving range, charging options, etc., ought to be very relevant, IMO. ;-)
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My thoughts exactly. Nissan really needs to give existing LEAF owners a reason to upgrade to another LEAF. A larger battery and a real charging network would be enough for most people.

When you read the Kia thread you can see how many people would like an EV with a little more range.

Tesla seems to be the only game in town if you want decent charging access.
 
I think Nissan needs a Leaf that can compete with the Tesla Model 3. Even if the new Leaf doesn't have 200 mile range, they better have the chassis to support that size battery. Tesla will create a formidable EV in the Leaf segment. Should the new Leaf not at least have an option for 200 miles range, it is goodbye Nissan from the EV game.
 
It's a drag that Nissan can't inspire their dealers to unanimously support BEVs and offer 24/7 QCs that are reliable. Like it or not, the dealerships are their public interface and the message recieved is Nissan doesn't take their BEV products or cusomers seriously. Or, failing that, install Tesla style banks of CHAdeMO in strategic locations. Hopefully 100kW ones if they're rolling out 48 kWh packs.
 
As long as they continue installing only one, and much less occasionally two, QCs in a location, it will never gain any usable Traction. Tesla knows how to do it and Nissan apparently does not (or will not)...

rslatkin said:
Reliable, widespread fast charging could be a game changer. Keep at it!
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Lots of the thread is devoted to analog v digital speedometer discussion.

The solution is clear to me. Give the customer the option since we seem to be evenly split. My $1,000 desktop computer or $500 laptop can have a analog or digital clock, why not my $30,000 car?

Tesla give their customers many customization, Nissan need to learn the same trick. Default choices for those who don't care, options for those who do.

As for the GOM. Pay the author of LEAFSpy for his algorithms and implement them in the LEAF. With the latest adjustments for cold weather/battery LEAFSpy is accurate within 1 mile over a 38 mile one way commute. Here's how I achieve that amazing accuracy. I read the miles/kWh off the LEAF dash and put it into Leafspy. Bingo. Nissan could feed the miles/KwH automatically into the algorithm. Don't make me think!

Bigger battery? Yes please and thank you!! With a bigger battery/range Charging needs to be L1/L2 for home and work. L3 for public locations. Nissan should be actively encouraging workplaces to install charging stations, it boosts sales, why are they not doing this already? Nissan should underwrite the build-out of a L3 network with redundancy. They have at least started this effort, just forgot to build in redundancy and assure 24/7 access. Did you know the L3 Blink units at Cracker Barrels are disabled after the stores close? Eh?
 
With all the replies and debate, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned making the OBDII port compatible with ICE vehicles. I'm sure much of the information doesn't apply, but basic functions should be the same.

My specific complaint is that I can't get the Progressive Snapshot discount on the LEAF. There is much debate, some hate it as intrusion, which it is, but it also helps to make people better drivers in my opinion. But if you're excellent, which I have proven on the Prius that I am, you can get a 30% discount, which is a huge savings.

If Nissan can't make things compatible, someone at Nissan should work a bit with Progressive to come up with a LEAF snapshot device.

My only other comment is about the QC network, which now is mostly on dealership lots. It has improved greatly in the past year or so, but I was prevented from making a 1200 mile round trip because I'd have to return on a Sunday and the dealerships were closed. So I ended up not being able to go. I understand dealership security, but still it should be possible to install the QC somewhere on the lot so a LEAF could use it even when the dealership is closed.
 
sub3marathonman said:
With all the replies and debate, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned making the OBDII port compatible with ICE vehicles. I'm sure much of the information doesn't apply, but basic functions should be the same.

My specific complaint is that I can't get the Progressive Snapshot discount on the LEAF. There is much debate, some hate it as intrusion, which it is, but it also helps to make people better drivers in my opinion. But if you're excellent, which I have proven on the Prius that I am, you can get a 30% discount, which is a huge savings.

If Nissan can't make things compatible, someone at Nissan should work a bit with Progressive to come up with a LEAF snapshot device.

My only other comment is about the QC network, which now is mostly on dealership lots. It has improved greatly in the past year or so, but I was prevented from making a 1200 mile round trip because I'd have to return on a Sunday and the dealerships were closed. So I ended up not being able to go. I understand dealership security, but still it should be possible to install the QC somewhere on the lot so a LEAF could use it even when the dealership is closed.
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The issue lies more with the makers of the obdii device. Even on ice cars compatability isn't 100% with obd scanners and loggers. The leaf reports speed and braking. I wonder what else they need for insurance purposes.
 
JPWhite said:
Lots of the thread is devoted to analog v digital speedometer discussion.

The solution is clear to me. Give the customer the option since we seem to be evenly split. My $1,000 desktop computer or $500 laptop can have a analog or digital clock, why not my $30,000 car?

Tesla give their customers many customization, Nissan need to learn the same trick. Default choices for those who don't care, options for those who do.

As for the GOM. Pay the author of LEAFSpy for his algorithms and implement them in the LEAF. With the latest adjustments for cold weather/battery LEAFSpy is accurate within 1 mile over a 38 mile one way commute. Here's how I achieve that amazing accuracy. I read the miles/kWh off the LEAF dash and put it into Leafspy. Bingo. Nissan could feed the miles/KwH automatically into the algorithm. Don't make me think!
Click to expand...
how does LEAF Energy compare as an app for accuracy?
 
thankyouOB said:
how does LEAF Energy compare as an app for accuracy?
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It seems to be a little optimistic in arriving at the miles/kWh and therefore overstates range by a little. It estimated I would use 9 fuel bars at today's speeds, temps, and elevation change but I actually used 10. It estimates I would get 4.4 miles/kWh when reality is closer to 4.

So I would say it is a little too optimistic by maybe 10%, but much better than the GOM.

Its been a while since I used the app. I have it on my iPad which I don't use when I drive. Thanks for reminding me I had it :)
 
JPWhite said:
thankyouOB said:
how does LEAF Energy compare as an app for accuracy?
Click to expand...

It seems to be a little optimistic in arriving at the miles/kWh and therefore overstates range by a little. It estimated I would use 9 fuel bars at today's speeds, temps, and elevation change but I actually used 10. It estimates I would get 4.4 miles/kWh when reality is closer to 4.

So I would say it is a little too optimistic by maybe 10%, but much better than the GOM.

Its been a while since I used the app. I have it on my iPad which I don't use when I drive. Thanks for reminding me I had it :)
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one reason why (actually there are several) I like LEAF Spy in that it allows you to enter your miles/kwh. Each driving condition and style along with weather and traffic creates nearly infinite possibilities.
 

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