Using the Leaf for power in a Blackout: MY "Leaf to Home"

sdmacuser said:

I like what you have done here but am also considering something a bit larger like a Leaf to Home system as soon as they become available in the US and Europe.

Problem is they are not yet available outside of Japan (not sure why exactly short of politics) and who knows when they will be?

So how do I order one of these Leaf to Home systems if I wished to purchase one short of living in Japan to place my $4000 dollar order?

And yes I'm certain these systems will be much money than $4000 for those of us who don't happen to reside in Japan. I'm guessing at least 3 times as much and maybe even more.


http://www.redferret.net/?p=44743" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

I considered building a true "leaf to home" system.
But the costs out-weigh the benefits in my opinion.
With the leaf to home, you directly tap the traction HV pack.
But then you have to convert the HV DC to usable AC anyway, which will cause loss.
The more current you allow (use), the less time you get from the pack.
I want something that can run a fridge or a small appliance for as long as possible.

I have had the most fun with this supplying power for people in weird situations.
The Leaf to home that I saw was anything BUT portable.

The 2013 doesn't seem to have that little ledge that the negative lead from the inverter is bolted to in the pic.
Would the location I have marked in this picture work? There is a little metal plate bolted to the block that supports a wire.

wups, thought i could upload the image.


Alrighty, well, for the meantime, can someone tell me how many watts the DC cig lighter port under the climate controls can handle? I've got a 300 watt inverter I was just going to plug into there for the meantime.

Thanks in advance

10 amps at 12 volts, IIRC, which is 120 watts.

LeftieBiker said:

10 amps at 12 volts, IIRC, which is 120 watts.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that.

The 100 watt inverter I have is modified sine.
The pure sine wave inverter I have is 300w.
I have only seen a post suggesting that a pure sine wave inverter can be used.
What will happen if I use the 300w and the load draws 150watts?
Or will the modified sine inverter be fine?

sdmacuser said:

exactly what is the parts list for this to be able to charge your appliances in the home? Procedure for set also please.


TIA

Click to expand...

Emergency power systems like this are now sold as kits. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17189" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I would eventually like to see it as a 120V outlet mounted to the car as an OEM option.

What will happen if I use the 300w and the load draws 150watts?

Click to expand...

The problem isn't the 300 watt inverter: just limit the load to <120 watts and you'll be fine. 150 watts, unless *very* transient, would blow the accessory fuse.

LeftieBiker said:

What will happen if I use the 300w and the load draws 150watts?

Click to expand...

The problem isn't the 300 watt inverter: just limit the load to <120 watts and you'll be fine. 150 watts, unless *very* transient, would blow the accessory fuse.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

I've been keeping the load just under 100 watts and everything works real nice.

How long are the cables shown in the pictures? Trying to replicate the original setup.

KillaWhat said:

This is MY answer to the thread "What became of the "LEAF TO HOME" Power the house

Click to expand...

This is a better shot to see the cables (Pre Brusa )

I hope it helps.

I also have an "extension" cable to place the inverter inside the car if needed, but have not had to use it in real life so far.

This setup continues to be really useful in "remote" situations.

It looks really cool KillaWatt. Great job.

I'm going to try to duplicate this for my Leaf. Can I buy the mounting bracket somewhere? If not, what would you recommend as a close enough alternative?

Thanks much for sharing your work.. its a piece of art

digicool said:

It looks really cool KillaWatt. Great job.

I'm going to try to duplicate this for my Leaf. Can I buy the mounting bracket somewhere? If not, what would you recommend as a close enough alternative?

Thanks much for sharing your work.. its a piece of art

Click to expand...

Thanks.

You could build it out of a piece of 3/16" or thicker aluminum sheet and a couple pieces of aluminum angle.

Rivet it or drill and tap.

sorry I don't have a better solution.

I am using several cheap Harbor Freight "modified sine wave" inverters on my existing deep cycle 12v stand-by system.
These range in output capacity between 400 watts and 1KW with surge ratings 50 to 100% higher. They are cheap, reliable, and some even turn themselves off if the load goes off.

Surprisingly, these will run computers, Digital TV's and thier digital accessories DVD, Converter etc.. with out any problem.

One good thing about these is that will give a stable output voltage over a wide range of input voltages.
I haven't looked at the waveform with an oscilloscope.. but it seems not to matter. Only the very smallest/cheapest that plugs directly into the cigarette lighter appears to be outputting a dubious waveform ( 140w).

I am completely surprised to find out that Leaf the DC-DC converter is capable of 1.7Kw output at 12 V !
That is a huge amount of power.

We lose power here every winter.. and we can run our small fridge ( 600 watts), an LED TV, and a few incandescent lamps with out little 1KW ICE generator.. but with LED lamps.. we could light the our whole cottage up like a whore house. Clearly.. the Leaf can supply this 800 watt load for a LONG time.. especially since the fridge cycles off a good deal.

Plus the voltage regulation will be much much better, no spikes, nor surges.

Wait till I tell the wife !

Do run this type of setup while the car is in drive mode? What is the difference between setting it up like this and using the cigarette port to power the inverter?

Yes the Leaf should be in ready or drive mode to make sure it keeps the 12v aux battery charged. You can only pulls 15 amps at 12v through the cigarette plug, that's 180w max, I would stay below 100w on a cigarette plug. Also the smaller wiring going to the cigarette plug will loose quite a bit of voltage under even a 10 amp load, for larger loads an inverter really needs to be connected with a short heavy gauge wire directly to the battery, with the negative side on the chassis somewhere solid.

This may become much easier for the non-technical among us very soon. http://www.cnet.com/news/hondas-power-exporter-9000/#ftag=YHFd1c3725?ref=yfp

That's exactly what the Power Exporter 9000 does. This box, making its global debut here at Japan's CEATEC show, plugs into electric cars via the Chademo standard plug, which is typically used to provide fast DC charging on Japan's EVs. But, instead of providing DC, it actually takes it out, converting it into the AC power that your home devices can use. Because it uses this standard, it can actually work with any EV that supports Chademo.

Click to expand...

Wonder what the cost will be for this? Will it be available in the USA, unlike Nissan's "Leaf-To-Home" energy station, which AFAIK, was only available in Japan.

TT

“you can get 9kW of electricity out for a solid week. That's more than enough to power a house.”

Click to expand...

Well, not plugged into a Leaf you cannot.

I assume 9kW (h), that is going to flatten your 21kWh usable pack damn quick.

2.3 hours assuming no loss (and there IS loss.)

And if you are tapping the Chademo system, this is going to be really expensive.
Sounds like the original “Leaf to home” system, which was about $5000.

You don’t need to be a Techie to use this system.
Buy the inverter, get a set of jumper cables, and Bobs your Uncle, 1000 watts continuous pure sine wave for a reasonable period of time.

Cost about $200 - $250.

Yes that 9 kw for a week was thrown out with the Honda fuel cell BEV, so basically the fuel cell powering the load...

But I am with you, a nice good sized sine wave inverter and your good to go.

Has anyone done this setup on a 2014 or newer Leaf? I'm asking because it worked on my 2012 Leaf, with the Xantrex ProWatt SW 1000Watt inverter attached between the motor case and the 12V battery positive terminal, and I was able to run my fridge (1.8A, 135W continuous). Now I have a 2014 Leaf, and when I hooked up the same inverter to run the same fridge, I'm getting error code E03-overload shutdown.

I hope the 12V charging system in the Leaf hasn't been modified, so that it no longer is able to adequately drive the Pro Watt inverter.... :|

Two possibilities: either the inverter is going bad and drawing more power, or they have changed the car's 'wariness level' for external loads. In the latter case a large storage battery between the car and the inverter might still work, assuming the problem is the momentary draw and not the continuous one.

OK, I finally bit the bullet and ordered up some parts and made up an inverter system for my 2013 LEAF S (17k miles, still has 12 bars). Its based upon a 1500W 'tiger claw' sine wave inverter and some heavy duty 'jumper' type clamps with 2AWG stranded solid copper cables. I tested it out running for a few hours with a space heater at different powers, everything looks good at 500 W and 1200 W (the cables get a little warm at the latter power, but not the former).

I want to know my system efficiency, from traction battery kwh (estimated by drops to dash SOC) to kWh_AC output. When I do this, I appear to be getting numbers around 55% or so.

This figure assumes that the LEAF pack is 21 kWh total, and that kWh from the traction battery are approx:

(1) Energy_out_traction = 21 kWh * (\Delta SOC),

The formula neglects all onboard 12V loads when in 'ready to drive' (with all acc off, and the display at min brightness). Using the nominal eff of my inverter (80%), I conclude that either the onboard DC-DC converter is ~70% efficient, or onboard standby loads are like 150W or so, or some combination, like 90% onboard eff and 100W standby.

Does this make sense...if these numbers are typical, they DO somewhat limit the amount of useful energy that can be pulled from the LEAF. If I only want to take the traction battery down to 30% SOC (e.g. to drive to nearby DCFC to recharge) and my system eff is 55%, then I can only get 21*0.55*0.7 = 8 kWh_AC output energy.

This is of course enough to run my roughly 300W blackout loads for >24 hours, but it is a tad frustrating that I can't get more than 8-10 kWh out of a car with a nominal '24 kWh' battery. Its a classic case IMO of death by a thousand cuts....I lose 15% on true battery capacity, 20% in my inverter, 30% between standby and DC-DC losses, maybe I have 5-10% capacity loss....it all multiplies until I only get 1/3rd of the nominal energy (8 vs 24 kWh).

I know that the SOC display is non-linear in pack energy, but based on old threads it seems that it is pretty linear and 1:1 proportional at the high end of the range, >90% SOC. Correct me if I'm wrong. I do see the apparent system eff start to drop below 85%SOC in a way consistent with expected non-linearity.