Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

mwalsh said:

Well, sadly, we knew there would be some owners would just miss out.

I've said this before, but I'm actually really surprised it hasn't been more of us - I figured it would be the majority rather than a minority.

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It may yet be a majority of all 2011 US LEAFs.

Sorry Karl.

You might try the BBB claim and appeal.
Or the multiple email complaints to Nissan multiple managers.

A couple people got outside capacity warranty replacements that way.

If that fourth bar drops soon there might be a chance.
File as soon as it drops and be vigorous and diligent.
Two good MNL threads with good help.

kolmstead said:

Back to 183 GIDs this morning. The car was just messing with me for the past two weeks! As soon as I saw it climb back up to 181 yesterday, I knew the game was over.

-Karl

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Tough luck mate. Sorry to hear you missed out. Mine went yesterday, wish I could have sent it to you instead as I've still got 5 months on the warranty.

I read elsewhere on this site about someone challenging the 8yr 100K mi battery warranty based on low capacity and winning. I'm not sure the circumstances, but they said that a battery that had a capacity of 65% should not be considered a functioning battery pack based on the 100K warranty. I think they filed a case with the BBB and wound up winning.

Yeah. Leafer77. The process took 9 months and a lot of time and effort. And testimony from a couple of other MNL members.

For anyone contemplating this approach, it'd be best if he/she wasn't a frequent poster on MNL, and in particular, didn't post suggestions on how people could "help" their batteries degrade.

My battery was degrading fast enough to pretty much guarantee its replacement, until this summer. Ridgecrest had the coolest summer in the thirty years I've lived here. When I saw that happening, I started trying to use the whole battery every day and warming it up as much as I could on the way home each night. That probably helped, but not enough to extinguish the ninth capacity bar. Blame it on El Nino!

-Karl

If it drops tomorrow, go to dealer anyway. Isn't it midnight on the day you took possession? Golly, I don't want to give up hope for you either!

mwalsh said:

I've said this before, but I'm actually really surprised it hasn't been more of us - I figured it would be the majority rather than a minority.

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At this point in time, only a very small number of LEAFs are reaching either 5 years in age or 60k miles. Give it 4-6 more months when the first initial wave of deliveries were completed and I suspect you'll see quite a few more people in Karl's situation. Me included, currently at ~200 GIDs on a 100% charge, need to lose ~20 GIDs in < 6 months - but my current rate of GID loss is about 20 GIDs/year with the bulk of it happening during the summer.

^ True enough. Karl has the somewhat dubious honor of being the first based on time, with the others thus far being on mileage.

I've read waay too many pages of this thread! Entertaining and insightful to follow.

We've decided to buy a used leaf up here in Minnesota. There are three cars that I could get for around 7500 and all have 9 bars and around 33k miles. I also posted this in the 8 bar battery replacement thread but since this thread was helpful to me and you all are experienced and knowledgeable bar "losers" I figured I'd post this here as well.

One car needs to lose one more bar before September 12, 2017. Chances of this happening and me getting a battery replacement?

I have an 8 mile commute one way, all under 50 mph, and we have determined we won't even need a level 2 charger in our garage with the amount of driving we do. With the cold Minnesota climate and my driving habits is it a sure thing that I will lose a bar in a year and a half? No way I'm getting to 60k miles before September 2017 so the time limit is more relevant. I could do an 11 mile highway commute in the same amount of time if necessary to speed battery degredation.

Since temps here are over 85 maybe 5-8 days per year, how likely is it that I'll lose one bar between now and September 2017? Originally I'd thought buying a 9 bar car would be a great idea, now after seeing it took Mwalsh 11k miles and over a year in a warmer climate than me I'm not so sure. I don't have the AHr numbers for the cars but did purchase an OBD dongle which is on its way now. Maybe the dealer can read the AHr #'s for me?

Seems dumb to make a gamble unless it's highly likely to result in a new battery when I could get an 11 bar car for $8700.

Thanks for your insight. I'm an over-planner/researcher and have found this forum incredibly helpful.

You really have to see what the Ah readings are, and verify that the P3227 updates were done and that the cars aren't "opted out" of the capacity warranty. And no, the dealer will NOT tell you the Ah or any other readings you can get from LeafSpy. I would call 877-No-Gas-EV to find out about the other two things - trust nothing the dealer says. With your cold climate, I'd be very worried that if the 10th bar was only recently lost you wouldn't make it. If you can find one that's already got Ah down below 44 or so then you're probably fine, but it still might take quite a while. Look up the battery aging model to see what degradation rates are like up there.

Also consider that if you don't get a new battery before next winter comes a 9 bar leaf might be unusable. Even only 20 miles is a struggle with a ~35% degraded pack, even less capacity available due to the cold, and the heat on. Can you plug in at work?

I'd hesitate to do this experiment if I were you and instead consider leasing a new Leaf or try to find a used Leaf that's already had its battery replaced (or perhaps already has <9 bars). From what I've seen the market tends to undervalue these old Leafs with new batteries, especially if you're buying it off a dealer lot or from a Carmax-type place, as they in general know nothing about EVs and just look at model year and mileage when calculating what a car's worth (try entering "new battery" in Kelley Blue book!)

Personally speaking I don't see how a pack that is degraded to say 50% after 8years or 100K miles wouldn't be considered a "malfunctioning" battery based on the 8year/100K warranty? Maybe we need a new class action suit for these?

dex8425 said:

...Chances of this happening and me getting a battery replacement?

...

Seems dumb to make a gamble unless it's highly likely to result in a new battery when I could get an 11 bar car for $8700.

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Chances are extremely low in Minnesota with your very low miles being driven.

Too risky.

Buy something with less capacity loss.

Or work to find used LEAF that has already had capacity warranty battery replacement or has already qualified.

Outside air temp (and my battery temp) are hitting 70 degrees now, and the artificial boost that the Leaf's firmware gave the battery over the winter is fading. 42.12 Ahr tonight, the lowest I've ever recorded. I saw one 42.27 back in November, and then it climbed back up to about 42.5 during the coldest months. I'm not driving the car to turtle any more; no need to force the BMS to update. I'm hitting LBW several miles from home almost every day (and warranty has expired).

61 months of ownership on Feb 15th. Capacity should be less than 42.1 Ahr then. Still on track for losing ninth bar in mid-March, at 42.0 Ahr and 62 months, about 42 K miles.

And for Hillofzap, who only has ten miles left on his capacity warranty, I know the feeling! We're going to see a LOT of cars that fall out of warranty this year. I'll be donating my disposable car to the Salvation Army next winter when it can't do my 38 mile commute any longer.

-Karl

dex8425 said:

Seems dumb to make a gamble unless it's highly likely to result in a new battery when I could get an 11 bar car for $8700.

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Yes, if it's not likely you'd be able to get a 9 bar car down to 8 bars, the 11 bar car would be the better bet.

That said, you still need to hook the 11 bar car up to LEAFSpy and make sure 11 bars indicated actually does correlate with the expected AHrs remaining - we've seen a couple of cars where the capacity bars have apparently been reset, and cars that really should have had 9 bars remaining have shown 12 bars just long enough for the dealer to get the car gone!

Could someone kindly provide a link or explanation to what the terms/data provided by Leafspy mean? I am prepping to go Leaf shopping, have purchased a v1.5 BT dongle, installed the app and successfully paired my Android tablet with the dongle. I have not yet used the equipment to test a Leaf as of yet but once I do I would be seeing data that I would have a hard time interpreting.

How do we interpret the data provided by LS?


Thanks ...

The simplest thing to do is just focus on the "SOH" number - this is the percentage of new capacity. A new Leaf is supposed to get about 80 miles range on average, so if for example SOH is 87% (as pictured), then you should only expect 80 * .87 = 70 miles range instead.

If you're looking for a newer car, you want the highest possible SOH (probably at least 90%). If you're hoping to win the free battery lottery, you want as close to 65% (or lower) as possible, with plenty of time and miles left for the 5yr/60k miles warranty.

Battery Ahr dropped into the 41's today. Still nine capacity bars. 180 GIDs at full charge.

-Karl

mwalsh said:

dex8425 said:

Seems dumb to make a gamble unless it's highly likely to result in a new battery when I could get an 11 bar car for $8700.

Click to expand...

Yes, if it's not likely you'd be able to get a 9 bar car down to 8 bars, the 11 bar car would be the better bet.

That said, you still need to hook the 11 bar car up to LEAFSpy and make sure 11 bars indicated actually does correlate with the expected AHrs remaining - we've seen a couple of cars where the capacity bars have apparently been reset, and cars that really should have had 9 bars remaining have shown 12 bars just long enough for the dealer to get the car gone!

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mwalsh can you give us a snapshot of your new battery specs?

I replaced my leaf not the battery and there are some worrying numbers that I am getting out of the new car when compared with my old car and rest of you. Car was mfg 4/2015 I got in 1/2016, same driving and charging habits as my 2014. charge every two days on L2 from 20-30% to 100% like with my old leaf.

What worries me is that I lost 6Ahr and 2kWh of capacity with just 1000 miles on the odometer? HX is dropping like a rock too!

Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
1/11/2016.....291.....22.55.....96.94.....95.61.....97.53.....63.35.....62.6.....30
1/16/2016.....277.....21.47.....97.22.....89.11.....90.95.....59.04.....60.....145
1/30/2016.....273.....21.16.....96.94.....87.96.....89.59.....58.28.....52.3.....451
2/19/2016.....268.....20.77.....97.21.....86.14.....87.08.....57.07.....54.6.....975
2/24/2016.....266.....20.61.....97.10.....85.58.....86.32.....56.70.....58.2.....1011

here are the same stats for my 2014 leaf which I put 17000 miles on

Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
1/9/2015.....260.....20.15.....96.0%.....92.0%.....93.0%.....60.72.....51.....7500
2/7/2015.....265.....20.54.....96.8%.....92.4%.....94.4%.....61.24.....50.....8200
3/5/2015.....268.....20.77.....97.0%.....93.3%.....95.3%.....61.80.....54.....8948
4/4/2015.....259.....20.07.....96.9%.....90.1%.....91.2%.....59.70.....68.....9948
5/3/2015.....261.....20.23.....96.9%.....91.1%.....92.5%.....60.34.....69.....10850
6/13/2015.....260.....20.15.....97.0%.....90.7%.....92.0%.....60.10.....81.....11942
6/19/2015.....262.....20.31.....97.0%.....91.1%.....92.5%.....60.36.....79.....12092
7/2/2015.....259.....20.07.....97.0%.....90.2%.....91.4%.....59.78.....81.....12599
8/13/2015.....256.....19.84.....97.0%.....89.3%.....90.2%.....59.15.....81.....13594
10/28/2015.....256.....19.84.....96.9%.....89.3%.....90.2%.....59.19.....71.....15213
11/24/2015.....257.....19.92.....96.9%.....89.5%.....90.4%.....59.29.....64.....16075
12/31/2015.....250.....19.38.....97.0%.....87.1%.....87.0%.....57.69.....64.....17000

NasGoreList said:

mwalsh can you give us a snapshot of your new battery specs?

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In the "Lizard Pack NOT Holding Up" thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21524

Hello,
I am a new member and I apologize if my questions/concerns have been raised before. On my 2011 Nissan Leaf SL with a LELink Bluetooth Low Energy BLE OBD-II OBD2 Car Diagnostic Tool For iPhone/iPod/iPad and the Leaf Spy Pro app installed on my iPhone Plus 6, I get the following data in the first screen:

AHr=44.75 SOH:68% Hx=61.52% 392.85V Hx=6141 31A 6V odo=46733 0QCs & 1639 L1/L2

When fully charged, on Screen 3 (Table), I see this (consistently for the past week or so) :
94.9% SOC 14.6kWh 42.38Ah 392.85V 189 GIDS (67.3%)

I am concerned by the high AHr and HX numbers on the first screen. Shouldn't the Hx numbers be in mid to low forties by now?

So on the basis of the first screen, it appears that I have lost about 32% as indicated by the SOH with about 44.75AHr. But the numbers seem to contradict on screen 3, with the AH on full charge only 42.38 Ah and the GIDS being 189 which is less than 68%. I understand that GIDs number doesn't have any link to the capacity bar...but isn't there some correlation between the SOH and GIDs and Hx and AHr?

My warranty runs out towards the end of Aug. this year. I lost my 10th bar around Sept/Oct of last year. Any hope of the losing the 9th bar before my warranty runs out based on the strange numbers above?

Thanks!
Bala.


P.S: How do I upload pictures/screen shots of the Leaf spy app results?

Bayareabk,

Hmmmm... I averaged 2% SOH loss per month in AZ. I dropped the 9th bar at 41.79 AHr and 180 GIDs. Do you have any previous stats to be able to extrapolate?