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No comment has been posted here yet, so I thought I'd commemorate a victory at the CPUC yesterday.

I was surprised that the vote was a so close at 3-2 to finally approve a version of the PUC proposal that was provisionally approved in December.

With this decision, retail net metering was extended for the so-called NEM 2.0 period which begins at different times in the next year for each of the three large IOUs, but no later than July 2017.

This is a huge victory for the residential solar movement in California and across the country, since this decision was being watched closely.

The decision means that retail net metering will be retained for the next generation of home solar installations, with minor modifications. There will be small "non-bypassable" charges of between 2 and 4 cents per kWh (I'm not sure which) of all power pulled from the utility (I believe that is all utility power, not just net power after subtracting home generated power) that the utilities were able to justify being needed to help cover the costs of various programs and grid maintenance. In addition, newly installed systems will require a one-time hookup fee of up to $150, and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.

All told, though, the agreed upon package will maintain almost all of the benefits that current residential solar customers enjoy, and combined with lower panel costs and the rather unexpected re-approval by Congress of the Federal solar Investment Tax Credit of 30%, the growth of residential solar in the state should continue to gain momentum.

However, the PUC scheduled another examination of residential solar rates in 2019, so we'll see what happens in three years.

The two commissioners who voted no on the proposal are said to have felt that some modifications added late in the rule writing process went too far in the direction of helping the solar proponents, whom they thought were already getting a great deal in the earlier version.
 
Boomer23 said:
..... and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.
Nothing could be better than TOU for solar & EV.
Year to date 7 months (3kW DC solar)
This year 4783 net usage, cost $153.20 for 3.20 cents per used kWh.
Prior year 4194 net usage, cost $134.82 for 3.21 cents per used kWh.

Minimum for schedule D IIRC is 15 cents per kWh.
 
smkettner said:
Boomer23 said:
..... and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.
Nothing could be better than TOU for solar & EV.
Year to date 7 months (3kW DC solar)
This year 4783 net usage, cost $153.20 for 3.20 cents per used kWh.
Prior year 4194 net usage, cost $134.82 for 3.21 cents per used kWh.

Minimum for schedule D IIRC is 15 cents per kWh.

Completely agree. For the same reasons, I haven't had to pay an electric bill for 9 years, aside from a buck or two a month.
 
smkettner said:
Boomer23 said:
..... and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.
Nothing could be better than TOU for solar & EV.
You haven't seen the proposed TOU plans yet.

See what I posted the other day that SDG&E is proposing for TOU time periods.

The short version is that peak rates will be 4pm-9pm year round. There is not much sun left in that time of day. In the winter, it's a tiny fraction. In the summer, it's maybe 15-25%.
 
Yes 6 hours of SOP is a bit short and Peak goes an hour longer into the dark than SCE. Still if you are selling solar all day and buy most at night as I do it should be fine. In summer when it is hot my air conditioner runs near continuous from 12a to 6a and off until 8p the next night.

Beware as the solar march continues... on-peak will push well into the night and SOP will be mid-day.
Batteries will be common for both utilities and consumers to play the game properly..
 
drees said:
smkettner said:
Boomer23 said:
..... and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.
Nothing could be better than TOU for solar & EV.
You haven't seen the proposed TOU plans yet.

See what I posted the other day that SDG&E is proposing for TOU time periods.

The short version is that peak rates will be 4pm-9pm year round. There is not much sun left in that time of day. In the winter, it's a tiny fraction. In the summer, it's maybe 15-25%.
Ouch, this would hurt me. Tree shade shuts most of my array down by 4 pm most of the year, and in the summer I am often still running the A/C at 9pm. Presently SCE weekday on-peak runs 2pm to 8pm, but SCE could decide to copy SD&G any time. Thanks for cross post.

Like Boomer23, I am grateful that CPUC voted as they did, and I am also surprised that the vote was so close. If the nationwide attack on Net Metering can force this close a vote in California, it indicates the utility mindset is getting a lot of traction. The utilities' sharp comments after the vote suggest they are quite upset and are not going to give up.

My Jan bill is the end of my true-up period. My binge on A/C last Aug and Sept, when I was having sleep problems, dug me a hole that I was not quite able to climb out of. For the first time I actually owe a net $6.98 for the 12 months, but considering I imported a net total of 4,951 kWh more than I produced for the year, that is still a pretty good deal, $.0014/kWh, 1/7 of a cent. A very good TOU profit.

My January bill also reports a change in SCE Winter TOU rates effective Jan 1, 2016.
New rates
xxxxxx Del Gen Total
xOnPk .14 .14 .28
xOffPk .14 .14 .28
SOffPk .08 .04 .12

Note that the OnPk and OffPk total rates are virtually the same for the 8 months of EV winter. Therefor the time that OnPk starts and stops matters only in the Summer, but that is where the action is with higher prices for On Peak.

OnPk Delivery went up from .11 to .14, OnPk Gen went down from .24 to .14.

I suggest we could argue that the higher delivery price shows that they are assigning more value to our distributed power. If our power goes at most through only our local neighborhood transformer before it finds a net consumer, the cost of using that very small fraction of the grid should be a small fraction of the total distribution value back to the big generators. Unfortunately I don't know what are the relative costs of the local vs total grid infrastructure.

In HI, the much higher solar penetration often results in reverse power flow for the full 100 plus house circuit and through the larger substation transformer supplying your circuit. At that point the costs of distributing your solar generation have gone up, but I don't know how much.
 
I just got a letter from SCEdison proposing that I move from my current TOU-D-T plan to their TOU-D-A plan. They claim my $307 bill last year would have gone down to $209 but when I look at the difference in the rates it looks like BS to me.

A bit of background.. I've got an ancient 2.4kW array which on a good day puts out 1.5-1.8kW at peak. It's a 48V battery system currently served by a 5kWh lithium pack. We've got 4 people in the house and my Leaf is on a 2nd meter (TOU-EV-1).

Most months we're under the 130% baseline although August and September went a good way over thanks to AC.

The TOU-D-A would move my peak from 12-6 to 2-8... I can certainly understand why they want me to do this as the 6-8 peak is now their big problem as all the solar in CA has diminished the afternoon peak.... But I don't see how this is good for me.

If we were closer to baseline or under for total consumption and I had a larger battery system I could buy up all the power at their new super off peak rate but it's still not clear if this would be a big benefit (not to mention the extra stress on my 15 year old inverter (Xantrex/Trace 4048)). The normal off peak in the late morning and late evening would go from $0.16 to $0.21 (winter assuming 160% baseline), $0.14 to $0.20 (winter assuming 130% baseline), $0.16 to $0.24 (summer assuming 160% baseline), $0.14 to $0.23 (summer assuming 130% baseline)..

Yes the super off peak 10pm to 8am is really cheap especially if most is under baseline... but I don't think I'd get much from that unless I go much bigger on the battery and inverter.

Does $0.12 super off peak with a -$0.11 baseline credit mean all the super off peak power under the baseline is $0.01???

Am I reading this right?
 
You get the credit on "net" consumption up to baseline. If all of it happens during sop and is below baseline so yes it is one penny per kWh.
 
GregH said:
Does $0.12 super off peak with a -$0.11 baseline credit mean all the super off peak power under the baseline is $0.01???

Am I reading this right?
YES :D

I think you will do fine with TOU-A

You will start to run the dish washer SOP by using the delay timer. Do a load of laundry from 7a to 8a etc.
Keep the air at a modest level until 8p and then let it work a bit so you can sleep well.

Adjust a few things in your life and this pays off handsomely. Try it for a year.
 
Ok, that's pretty cool... but I'd still be paying more from 8pm to 10pm on D-A than D-T..
I guess I'm just looking at this the wrong way.. The 10pm to 8am electricity is basically free.. Even if I go over baseline it's only $0.12 beyond that.
I suppose if I set my inverter to charge the batteries from 10pm to 8am then ran on battery + PV for the day... somehow I don't think I'd make it to 10pm though.. especially in the months where AC is used (although I guess much of that can be moved to 10pm).

So dumb question on the baseline credit..
If my baseline was 300kWh and used 400kWh, how would that apply if I:
A. used 400kWh SOP and 0kWh normal
B. used 200kWh SOP and 200kWh normal.
C. used 350kWh SOP and 50kWh normal.

?

thanks
 
Baseline credit is a separate line item.

If baseline is 300 kWh and you use 400 kWh (net) and the credit is 10 cents you get a line item that says credit $30
The rest of the tiers are charged as used. You can net them in your head any way you like.
 
smkettner said:
Baseline credit is a separate line item.

If baseline is 300 kWh and you use 400 kWh (net) and the credit is 10 cents you get a line item that says credit $30
The rest of the tiers are charged as used. You can net them in your head any way you like.
Yes, I agree. This was hard for me to get my head around as well. Once you exceed your baseline allocation in net usage, your SOP incremental rate goes to $.11/kWh, not $.01/kWh. That is still awfully cheap for California, although it is nothing special or even high for states burning coal.

TOU D-A worked reasonably well for me all last year, except Aug and September, where I just could not wait for 8pm to power up the A/C. However, on less extreme days I broke even on OnPk, generating as much after 2pm before sundown as I consumed with A/C after dark before 8 pm. On weekends I accumulated net credits for OffPk in the afternoon to use during the week.
Prior to 2015 TOU DT-EV with its 10am to 6pm OnPk window was much more generous for me.

Even at $.11/kWh, charging the Tesla after full day excursions really broke the bank for me last year, so I am hoping to install a few more solar panels. The good roof is all gone, but I have some eastern exposure that is will generate about 4 hours per day, 9am to 1pm. In the winter, the angles are shallow, but in summer I will get decent Offpk production in the morning.

Last September, in the middle of the heat wave, I also installed a 3 kW ductless mini-split Mitsubishi inverter heat pump system for the 3 rooms I use the most. I expect it will save me a lot next summer. Right now I am running the heat pump in reverse to reduce my natural gas usage (a la Porter Ranch), but getting serious with this will have to wait until I get the extra solar.
 
I added 6 - Solar World 245's, last year. Turned out to be overkill. I ended the year with a $150 credit, after running two portable electric heaters 7/24 for November and December, used 1200+ kWh for December. I true-up 12/31 and went positive for the year on 2/12. Should have a $30 credit at the end of the month.
 
I have $350 credit after 9 months with a 9kW system, and I'm a net consumer so far. Probably could have gone with a smaller array but considering SCE tends to change rate schedules to screw solar customers every so often and reduced solar output over time I'm likely in a good shape for long term.
 
Yes mostly. I have two air conditioners. I run the downstairs at 62 overnight on hottest days. Creeps up to 78 or 80 inside by 8pm. Upstairs I don't cool as much overnight and is set to 88 during the day until 8 pm goes to 78. 10 pm to 74 and maybe 68 to sleep. On hottest days the compressors will run about continuous from 12 am to 6 am. Dishwasher run every night at 12 am. Laundry and electric oven on weekends only. Xmas lights are mostly LED.

The temperature swing in the house actually mimics a natural cycle so we have gotten used to it. Easier to make it to 8 pm when you know the air will kick on a bit and continue to cool through the night. Or just find something else to do and keep your mind off the heat.
 
smkettner said:
The temperature swing in the house actually mimics a natural cycle so we have gotten used to it.
Interesting - I wonder how much energy this uses compared to say keeping the house at a steady 76-78 perhaps cooling off to 70 at midnight?
 
For extracting a fixed BTU I do believe the cooler overnight temperature helps efficiency vs some cycling mid day at 95+.
It is well known high temperatures cause higher starting and running current for the compressor.
 
Yes, I agree. Keeping the thermostat set at any one "steady" temperature does not increase efficiency by itself. There is a cost to frequently starting and stopping a conventional A/C without inverter motor technology, but raw A/C efficiency decreases when the difference between outside and inside temperatures increases. If you can stand to run the A/C less during the hottest part of the day, and then run it more after the outside has started to cool off, you will gain in efficiency.
 
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