rcm4453
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:16 pm

Would a 2012 SL Leaf missing 1 bar still be able to do 35 miles on a full charge in winter here in Minnesota with the heat on? I'm seeing a lot of 2012s for really good prices online but most are missing 1 or 2 capacity bars. I don't want to spend more then $8k so this pretty much limits me to 2012s. As long as I can do 35 miles in winter I don't care if it's missing 1 or 2 bars.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9804
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:23 pm

There are variables to consider, like "how much heat?" and "how fast?" Based on what I've seen and what I know about how my heatpump-equipped 2013 SV does in near zero (F) temps where the heat pump isn't helping, I'd say it would range from "Sure, no problem" in mild temps, to "Hey, where did the range estimate go???" in frigid temps. There are ways to insulate the heating system, and if you could preheat the car on 240 volts and then rely as much on the seat and steering wheel heaters as on the cabin heater, you could probably manage. You would have to adjust your speed downward with the temps, though.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rcm4453
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:03 pm

Well I also have a 2011 Volt and I can usually get 25 miles on a frigid day in winter with the heat on going between 65 - 70mph on the freeway. I do head out of a heated garage every day so I don't have to use as much heat on the way to work. The car would sit out in the cold for 9 hours a day though while at work. No where to plug in either. I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW (which is all the Volt let's me use) I would assume I could do the whole 35 miles on a Leaf's pack even with 1 or 2 bars gone. I don't know though they are 2 totally different cars.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9804
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:55 pm

rcm4453 wrote:Well I also have a 2011 Volt and I can usually get 25 miles on a frigid day in winter with the heat on going between 65 - 70mph on the freeway. I do head out of a heated garage every day so I don't have to use as much heat on the way to work. The car would sit out in the cold for 9 hours a day though while at work. No where to plug in either. I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW (which is all the Volt let's me use) I would assume I could do the whole 35 miles on a Leaf's pack even with 1 or 2 bars gone. I don't know though they are 2 totally different cars.


I'm missing something here. Either you are preheating the Volt a lot, or running the engine, or your definition of "frigid" doesn't match the Volts: its engine is supposed to start in frigid temps, like it or not...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 8397
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:05 am

rcm4453 wrote: I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW

You mean kWh.

One problem with the '12 (and '11) heater is that it has a crap slow water heater. Apparently, even the '13+ S (w/o hybrid heat pump heater) has a different and better heater that doesn't use liquid and isn't as slow to heat.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rcm4453
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:36 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
rcm4453 wrote:Well I also have a 2011 Volt and I can usually get 25 miles on a frigid day in winter with the heat on going between 65 - 70mph on the freeway. I do head out of a heated garage every day so I don't have to use as much heat on the way to work. The car would sit out in the cold for 9 hours a day though while at work. No where to plug in either. I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW (which is all the Volt let's me use) I would assume I could do the whole 35 miles on a Leaf's pack even with 1 or 2 bars gone. I don't know though they are 2 totally different cars.


I'm missing something here. Either you are preheating the Volt a lot, or running the engine, or your definition of "frigid" doesn't match the Volts: its engine is supposed to start in frigid temps, like it or not...



I modified my Volt's temp sensor to always read outside temp at 28 degrees, therefor engine never runs until battery is depleted. Then in the spring I flip the switch so it reads the actual outside temp.

rcm4453
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:40 am

cwerdna wrote:
rcm4453 wrote: I figured if I can get 25 miles out of 10KW

You mean kWh.

One problem with the '12 (and '11) heater is that it has a crap slow water heater. Apparently, even the '13+ S (w/o hybrid heat pump heater) has a different and better heater that doesn't use liquid and isn't as slow to heat.



Yeah my Volt has the same crappy water heater system. I just remote start every night so it's warm when I get out to the car. Instant electric heat like in the '13+ models would be nice but there's a huge jump in price for those.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9804
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:02 am

I modified my Volt's temp sensor to always read outside temp at 28 degrees, therefor engine never runs until battery is depleted. Then in the spring I flip the switch so it reads the actual outside temp.


That explains that part, anyway. I still find it hard to believer that you get 25 miles range in frigid temps, at faster highway speeds, with the heat on, but I'm no expert on Volts. If the heat is on very low, then you can probably accomplish a similar feat (35+ miles) with a Leaf, by insulating the heating system and running that very low as well. At least with the Leaf you'd have a heated steering wheel (with the Cold Weather Package on the early cars).
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 1734
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:25 am

rcm4453 wrote:Would a 2012 SL Leaf missing 1 bar still be able to do 35 miles on a full charge in winter here in Minnesota with the heat on? I'm seeing a lot of 2012s for really good prices online but most are missing 1 or 2 capacity bars. I don't want to spend more then $8k so this pretty much limits me to 2012s. As long as I can do 35 miles in winter I don't care if it's missing 1 or 2 bars.

As LeftieBiker said there are lots of variables, actual outside air temp probably being the biggest. In my '13 S(not sure if it has a heat pump, air or hot water heater :? ) I can get 80 miles in the summer(with AC on) but that drops to 60 in the 20s-30s with almost constant heat ON(fan speed 1 or 2 with heat set at 76 degrees, morning preheat enabled but not evening). Unfortunately when it gets in the single digits the range drops to the 40s and below zero the range could be as low as the mid 30s, and this is with a battery missing no bars. I'm generally driving mostly highway and speeds in the 65-70mph range.

That said if your getting 25 miles on a Volt(commendable) I can't believe you couldn't get 35+ on a Leaf, even missing 1 or 2 bars. As others have said you can play with the heater to gain some extra range but for the most part I have to leave mine on 100% of the time during the cold to keep the windows clear(sure wish the Leaf had a heated windscreen like some of the older Ford's). A sunny cold day may be different, allowing you to turn off the heat but as you know we have more cloudy days in the winter than sunny, thus requiring near constant heater use.

On the coldest of cold days would there be a way you could plug it in at work? I realize most parking spots don't have such previsions but you might be able to find a few spots meant more for engine block heaters or sometimes near the building they might have a lowly 120v outlet meant for service, you'd want to ask with management first though. Using 120v at sub zero temps isn't really going to gain you much battery charge but it would be nice at least for a little preheating before leaving work, should allow you to use the actual car heat less, thus extending range.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

brettanicus
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2013
Leaf Number: 025075

Re: Would an 11 bar 2012 Leaf do 35 miles in Minnesota winter?

Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:15 pm

I have a '12 Leaf with 1 missing bar, and I am able to do 35-40 miles per charge in this pretty cold 2017 MN winter. I use seat and steering wheel heater, 64 degree heat setting (which actually takes quite a while to come on for me, so I feel like I'm half way home before it turns on.) Drive with Eco mode on for all but highway driving.

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”