DaveinOlyWA
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:54 pm

dhanson865 wrote:
powersurge wrote:I don't understand why people are talking about 60 kw and 100kw batteries


Yep, you seem to be confused by KW vs kWh.

kWh is a battery
KW is a charger

no one is talking about a 100 kw battery they are talking about a 100KW charger for a 60 kWh battery.

You'll have to get used to the KW vs kWh before you can keep up with a discussion like this.



not sure your statement clears up very much.

kwh = killowatt-hours and is related to the amount of charge stored in a battery. ICE version; gallons of gas in the tank.

KW = kilowatt is related to the level of power. There is not really a true gasoline equivalent since KW relates to both rate of power in and out so the "in" could be gallons per minute that can be put in by a gas station while power "out" could be related to the horsepower rating of the engine.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12322
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:56 pm

powersurge wrote:THAT'S IT! I"VE HAD IT!!!

I have reached the breaking point when multiple people give me CRAP over whether I use "KW" or "KWH". You guys continually trying to correct my scientific "grammar" is not just annoying, but it is downright disrespectful, especially if I was a naïve or uneducated individual... I did not ask for you to evaluate my spelling on my posts, and it just shows that you REALLY need to show your one-upsmanship. Actually, I have a Ph.D. in the sciences, have taken physics, organic chemistry, and a transcript of crap that you have never heard of.

Thank you for my education in using this site. I will now become a LURKER, never post another thing, and just read posts once in a while for entertainment. Also, please don't comment on how you are glad to get rid of me, because then you are proving that you are a bully... SHEESH!!! I can believe that I have written this over a freakin "KW".


goodbye!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
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aarond12
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:16 pm

powersurge wrote:I have reached the breaking point when multiple people give me CRAP over whether I use "KW" or "KWH".

For what it's worth, people misusing "loosing" instead of "losing" bothers me more, but I don't say anything because it doesn't really matter. The difference between kW and kWh is quite significant though.

How about people saying "it's 272 degrees Kelvin"? Does that bother you that there aren't any "degrees" in Kelvin? Just accept the correction and move on. It doesn't make you a worse person -- they are correcting you to help you. Or they're measurement Nazis. Whichever. ;)
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV ES (lease ended) • 2015 Nissan LEAF S • Tesla Model 3 reserved
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:36 pm

aarond12 wrote:
powersurge wrote:I have reached the breaking point when multiple people give me CRAP over whether I use "KW" or "KWH".

For what it's worth, people misusing "loosing" instead of "losing" bothers me more, but I don't say anything because it doesn't really matter. The difference between kW and kWh is quite significant though.

How about people saying "it's 272 degrees Kelvin"? Does that bother you that there aren't any "degrees" in Kelvin? Just accept the correction and move on. It doesn't make you a worse person -- they are correcting you to help you. Or they're measurement Nazis. Whichever. ;)


you all bring up good points but the basic facts are that we as a society accept a certain method of communication so the degrees kelvin, proper or not is still well understood.

mixing KW and kwh is not. simple as that.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
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Valdemar
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:43 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:mixing KW and kwh is not. simple as that.


With all due respect, I can't think of a discussion on this forum where I could not infer what poster meant even if s/he got units mixed up, it's usually clear from the context.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
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minispeed
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:19 pm

Valdemar wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:mixing KW and kwh is not. simple as that.


With all due respect, I can't think of a discussion on this forum where I could not infer what poster meant even if s/he got units mixed up, it's usually clear from the context.


I feel the same way, I've always felt that I know exactly what people mean regardless of using kW or kWh or KwH or KWh or anything else, same as using charger instead of EVSE.

Everyone makes mistakes so even if they know they might slip up. Go easy on people, who cares if you know what they mean let it slide. If you honestly don't know what they mean and are confused then I would say that your grasp of understanding how communication works is worse than their grasp of units of measurement and BEV terms.

As you can see below, some people even make mistakes while giving people s*#! for making mistakes. How many people actually think that below EVDRIVER was using "buy" to represent a purchase or just meant to use by?



EVDRIVER wrote:
powersurge wrote:
dhanson865 wrote:
Yep, you seem to be confused by KW vs kWh.

kWh is a battery
KW is a charger

no one is talking about a 100 kw battery they are talking about a 100KW charger for a 60 kWh battery.

You'll have to get used to the KW vs kWh before you can keep up with a discussion like this.


No, I know quite a bit, but I am not writing a technical paper here. I feel very informal in a car forum, and would hope that people understand what I mean when I talk about a 24KW battery....


With 150 posts here you should know the difference buy now on a simple concept, you can measure power output of a pack that way but not capacity and the LEAF has more than 24kw output. Just as watts and kw are not the same, there is a big difference in your terms.




Now back to the main topic.

I've always said that it's pointless to provide more battery than one needs, and I think that the race to cheaper 200 mile cars is not as important as much cheaper 120 mile cars (EPA range) for say under $20k. However there are a few other advantages of having 60kWh plus batteries. For people that are going to rely on using quick charge for highway trips they have to think of the highway range after a quick charge to be from 80% unless they want to wait a long time for that extra little bit. For winter use it's added security that the car can do what you need when you need it with heat and possible detours. If a super aero super light car can get 200 miles with 40kWh of battery it will probably take about the same energy to heat it as a car that gets 200 miles with 60kWh of battery so the drop in winter range could be more severe in the smaller battery car.

All those are from my observations as a current BEV driver, but it's more important to offer non current BEV drivers what they want to transition than it is to please current owners. I strongly suspect that once BEVs get a foot hold in the market most cars will max out with a 40-50kWh or so battery.
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Best 1 charge drive, 229km (143miles)

mtndrew1
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:30 pm

Wow, look how efficient it was to omit the "h" in the "kWh!" Saved one keystroke, added a page and a half of back-and-forth. Good on ya.

Back on topic, my only concern with the 60 kWh Leaf 2 is whether or not it has a cooling mechanism for the pack or a helluva warranty with clearly outlined guarantees if it doesn't (none of this "bars" business). It seems pretty clear to me that Leafs in warm climates still have a battery degradation issue that simply doesn't exist to the same degree in any other EV.

I think that unless Nissan has some major whiz-bang features on board the price ceiling for the car is whatever the Bolt EV's MSRP ends up being. In this market segment and in this day and age, range will win the race. The Leaf 2 has to be 60 kWh or greater for $37,500 or less because GM and LG already brought that to the table. And we already know the Bolt EV has an active cooling system similar to the clearly effective unit in the Volt PHEV.

Otherwise I'd like 100 kW DCFC (of any standard), a responsive mobile app, and maybe 100-120 kW of motor power.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:31 pm

mtndrew1 wrote:Wow, look how efficient it was to omit the "h" in the "kWh!" Saved one keystroke, added a page and a half of back-and-forth. Good on ya.

.


Ignorance is bliss and so are typos, of course I would not defend one nor would I say "I know a lot" preceding the wrong terminology. Nothing wrong with making a mistake as long as it gets corrected in time. I think this is as humorous as the chance of an improved LEAF pack with 60mwh.

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mwalsh
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:01 pm

aarond12 wrote:For what it's worth, people misusing "loosing" instead of "losing" bothers me more, but I don't say anything because it doesn't really matter. The difference between kW and kWh is quite significant though.


Ha! Guilty as charged. In my defense auto-correct won't catch that discrepancy,

But you don't see my taking my toys and going home, yelling "loosers" over my shoulder. ;)

Edit: I checked and I've incorrectly used loose instead of lose about 2/3rds of the time. So, clearly, I do know there is a difference, I just choose not to give a rats (or should that be chose?). I'm still blaming the iPad - I just tried to type my user name and it came up with "meals have" instead of mwalsh. :lol:
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: What expectation or concerns do we have of a Nissan 60kwh battery

Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:57 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
mtndrew1 wrote:Wow, look how efficient it was to omit the "h" in the "kWh!" Saved one keystroke, added a page and a half of back-and-forth. Good on ya.

.


Ignorance is bliss and so are typos, of course I would not defend one nor would I say "I know a lot" preceding the wrong terminology. Nothing wrong with making a mistake as long as it gets corrected in time. I think this is as humorous as the chance of an improved LEAF pack with 60mwh.


Since apparently this thread is about nit-picking terminology, I would have to disagree that a 60mwh (60 milliwatt-hour, or 0.00006kWh) battery is an "improved" LEAF pack ;)
~Brian

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