Lizard Pack Will Hold Up IF Your Driving Patterns Support It

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Well this thread is thoroughly disappointing.

I had hoped that when I buy a new pack I'd get maybe 50% more out of it. Now it seems it's same old S&*t different battery; the purchase seems dubious.

Maybe I should just trade.

Hmmm.....
 
^^^^^

Two have been.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19880&start=170#p456596.
Most recently Vlademar similar miles to you bit more capacity loss.

Someone else outside capacity warranty also got replacement after numerous complaints to Nissan.
 
Has anybody ever witnessed a LEAF pack degrade to the bitter end? What's the most number of bars lost anyone has seen, and how many miles of range did it have left?

I'm wondering if capacity degrades to some point where it would be covered by the 8 year part of the warranty? What's the difference between a battery that has "failed" and one that has zero capacity remaining?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Has anybody ever witnessed a LEAF pack degrade to the bitter end? What's the most number of bars lost anyone has seen, and how many miles of range did it have left?

I'm wondering if capacity degrades to some point where it would be covered by the 8 year part of the warranty? What's the difference between a battery that has "failed" and one that has zero capacity remaining?
Click to expand...
Not that I'm aware of. I think the worst I've heard of here on MNL is 5 capacity bars down. That person finally bit the bullet and got the battery replaced under capacity warranty.

Originally, I believe they wanted to go for 6 bars down.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Has anybody ever witnessed a LEAF pack degrade to the bitter end? What's the most number of bars lost anyone has seen, and how many miles of range did it have left?

I'm wondering if capacity degrades to some point where it would be covered by the 8 year part of the warranty? What's the difference between a battery that has "failed" and one that has zero capacity remaining?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking eventually you'll not be able to accelerate fully at which point I think the defect warranty would kick in. There also maybe a point where the car starts throwing codes.
 
cwerdna said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Has anybody ever witnessed a LEAF pack degrade to the bitter end? What's the most number of bars lost anyone has seen, and how many miles of range did it have left?

I'm wondering if capacity degrades to some point where it would be covered by the 8 year part of the warranty? What's the difference between a battery that has "failed" and one that has zero capacity remaining?
Click to expand...
Not that I'm aware of. I think the worst I've heard of here on MNL is 5 capacity bars down. That person finally bit the bullet and got the battery replaced under capacity warranty.

Originally, I believe they wanted to go for 6 bars down.
Click to expand...

The wiki has a 6 bar loser.

| #1
| Feb 2015
| hobbyguy
| Castaic - Santa Clarita, CA
| 69,000
| 51 months
| 11/2010
| 2011
| 0195
|
|
| '''I lost bar 4 at 62,000 miles and Nissan basically said tough luck'''. I have only 4 white and 2 red left now at 74,000 miles.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=431453#p431453
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19223&p=429338#p429338

and other posts detail his journey.

I think he had less than 30 miles range on a full charge last time he posted but he does NOT use leafspy so he might be leaving some unused at the bottom of the pack.

That'd still be usable for me, I drive about 15 miles one way to work and can charge at both ends and I use leafspy so I wouldn't mind dipping into LBW or even VLBW on a worst case when it snows and I have to use the heater.
 
There is a noticeable acceleration of the capacity loss once you go down 3 bars, at least if you need to charge the pack 100% overnight and then again some to get home from work. I suspect if you just need 20-30 miles a day capacity loss will be more linear over time.
 
It will be interesting to hear what happens when the batteries truly reach end of life, by that I mean losing 10, 11 or 12 bars. Even a car that only goes 10 miles is useful to some set of people; it certainly beats walking. It will also be interesting to hear how Nissan treats those cases in regards to the eight year part of the warranty. Seems like a distinct possibility with cars in warmer climates. Also seems likely such scenarios will happen with second or third owners, possibly picking up cars in otherwise nice condition for $1500.
 
mwalsh said:
12/30/15: AHr=63.80 CAP=97.26% Hlth/Hx=100.00% Gids=277. Mileage: 56,588
1/24/16: AHr=63.53 CAP=96.85% Hlth/Hx=95.57% Gids=278. Mileage: 56,886
2/22/16: AHr=62.55 CAP=95.35% Hlth/Hx=93.99% SOH=98% Gids=273. Mileage: 57,363
3/19/16: AHr=62.92 CAP=95.91% Hlth/Hx=94.76% SOH=98% Gids=278. Mileage: 57,841
Click to expand...

4/22/16: AHr=62.09 CAP=94.65% Hlth/Hx=93.26% SOH=97% Gids=274. Mileage: 58,295
 
mwalsh said:
mwalsh said:
12/30/15: AHr=63.80 CAP=97.26% Hlth/Hx=100.00% Gids=277. Mileage: 56,588
1/24/16: AHr=63.53 CAP=96.85% Hlth/Hx=95.57% Gids=278. Mileage: 56,886
2/22/16: AHr=62.55 CAP=95.35% Hlth/Hx=93.99% SOH=98% Gids=273. Mileage: 57,363
3/19/16: AHr=62.92 CAP=95.91% Hlth/Hx=94.76% SOH=98% Gids=278. Mileage: 57,841
Click to expand...

4/22/16: AHr=62.09 CAP=94.65% Hlth/Hx=93.26% SOH=97% Gids=274. Mileage: 58,295
Click to expand...

So you've done less than 2,000 miles in 5 months?

If so capacity loss is running about 4 GID's/month (1.5%) without the addition of significant cycle losses..
 
So if im not mistaken the first 'lizards' were put in 2014's right?

If they are degrading the same as 2011's, then I gotta ask, what are 2011's clocking in range wise today?
 
bolshevik36 said:
So if im not mistaken the first 'lizards' were put in 2014's right?
Click to expand...
No. Officially, they first showed up in '15 Leafs per http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168. There's been some speculation that some late '14s got it, but I know of no Nissan confirmation on this.

bolshevik36 said:
If they are degrading the same as 2011's,
Click to expand...
No. There's been some evidence to suggest that the pre-lizard batteries that began showing up in '13 Leafs maybe w/build months of 4/2013 are doing better in terms of degradation than anything before it. (Someone please correct me if I'm off a month.) Presumably, everything from that month forward is the same until the "lizard" batteries.

How much better the lizard batteries are doing than the above, if any, is unclear (in my book) at the moment.
bolshevik36 said:
then I gotta ask, what are 2011's clocking in range wise today?
Click to expand...
Poor question. One's range until dead depends on both remaining usable capacity and one's driving efficiency in miles/kWh. And lower temps throw this off, as well due to a # of factors (e.g. temporarily reduced capacity in cold, having to run the heater in the cold, reduced driving efficiency in snow, slush or rain, etc.)

Someone throwing out a # about their "range" is useless because we don't know their efficiency and know nothing about their remaining capacity. And, we don't know how low they're going before they call it quits.

Let's put it another way, if you asked a bunch of guys with '10 Corvette (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=28529) rated 15 mpg city/25 mpg highway w/18 gallon tanks their "range" and you had cases like these, how useful do you think their range numbers would be?
guy A) short city drives, esp in the cold w/lots of stop and go so he only achieves say 12 mpg AND he calls it quits when down to 1/4 tank

guy B) w/almost all long highway driving but keeps it below 60 mph so he probably achieves 28+ mpg and he fills up when the fuel warning light turns on

When people complain about "poor" or significantly worse range, people need to answer questions like http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=275421#p275421 for us to help them.
 
my 2013 is holding up better than my 2011 but to what degree, I am still working on. right now my battery stats are predictably low due to a lot of non driving, few full charges, etc. Every time my driving patterns are like this, my stats drop. I just past my low water mark for ahr on Tuesday (previous low was in late August of 2015 followed by 6-7 months of stats averaging above 97%)

Something I have stated many many times is that Nissan battery tech has is an ongoing improvement that has pretty much been continuous since before 2013. This is why 2013 performance was better. Now keep in mind; chemistry is only one part of the formula. BMS. battery control, regen, etc. all has been played with to find a better compromise and it does appear to be working. Now, its not working as fast or as much as we would like but there is definitely something going on.

now should Nissan hype like Tesla? ... well there is a lot to say about that on both sides, so I will let you guys at it.
 
Stats after 1 Chicago and 1 Phoenix summer.
2015
Ahr 57.07
Soh 91%
Miles 11,385

Dropped 3% soh during the winter months in AZ.

Noticeable degradation from new when I had 64.38 ahr 1.5 years ago. Will be interesting to see stats after this summer. Greatly disappointed w Nissan. Last Toyota lasted 15 years and was sold running. This car will not hold up.
 
Phatcat73 said:
Stats after 1 Chicago and 1 Phoenix summer.
2015
Ahr 57.07
Soh 91%
Miles 11,385

Dropped 3% soh during the winter months in AZ.

Noticeable degradation from new when I had 64.38 ahr 1.5 years ago. Will be interesting to see stats after this summer. Greatly disappointed w Nissan. Last Toyota lasted 15 years and was sold running. This car will not hold up.
Click to expand...


as mentioned above, not driving it much (11,000 miles after near two years qualifies you I think) will lower the battery numbers. to what degree? I don't know other than mine showed more than a 4 point swing on ahr...
 
I may have asked a poorly constructed question, considering your points, but I still didnt get a single answer!

I just want to know what my range/capacity will be on 5 yr old Leaf; in this case the 2011's. I need to make sure buying a Leaf makes sense economically which is why I am asking this question. Even 15-20 miles is very useful for my uses, so Im thinking he battery can lose 60%+ capacity/range and still be useful errand/shopping car for our family.

Also so some of you are saying using it more, with full charges, prolongs the battery life? That is counter-intuitive no?
 

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