Leafy totaled :(

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Valdemar

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
2,674
Location
Oak Park, CA
So, it happened. At about $9k retail value and $7-8k in estimated repairs my insurance declared it total loss. The car is driveable and if I don't care for aesthetics (I don't) I should be able to band-aid fix it for not much and keep driving it for some time like this, and this is what I actually want. However the insurance quoted $4k salvage bid which doesn't make sense given the estimated damage and the market value. I will try to negotiate the salvage bid down for keeping the car but if they don't budge are there any other options? Like give the car back to them for the full amount and then track it to an auction and try to buy for less? Any other advice for the best strategy if I want to keep the car? Not to mention I got a new battery as of last month, fortunately it was free, sigh. Hopefully I will at least be able to negotiate the market value up due to the new battery.
 
I've been watching the prices Leafs go for on some salvage websites. You should do the same. Some go as low as $3000 but other much higher. I'd be tempted to just get it for $4000 if you like it and know you are going to keep it. or take the money and buy it back with some change. I've noticed that the salvage prices drop if the car is missing or damaged things up front, like headlights, the plugs or signs of a rollover or if only the doors and windows are broken. any evidence that it was damaged on the body, roll cage or structure most shy away from.

I'm sure there are others here that have gone through the salvage process or watched the market longer and in more detail that I. Hopefully they will pipe up with better advice.

I guess it depends upon the money they will give you. Will you get a check for the retail minus your deductible?
 
The thing is if you try and get the retail price up, they may also try and raise the salvage price.... While you could try and wait for it to hit the auto auctions and get it for cheap(assuming you or someone you know has a license to purchase from them) you are taking quite a bit of a chance. If you really want it(I probably would in your case, especially knowing it has a new battery) I wouldn't wait for it to hit the auctions, try and talk to your adjuster and state you'd probably be interested in keeping it but was hoping they could drop the salvage price a bit. Personally I wouldn't mention the new battery but it's up to you, they may already know about it, I wonder if it's recorded somehow in CarFax? Nissan knows for sure, not sure who they pass it on to.
Worst case for $4k for a running Leaf and a basically new battery, I don't see how you could go wrong.
 
DuncanCunningham said:
I guess it depends upon the money they will give you. Will you get a check for the retail minus your deductible?

No deductible as we aren't at fault. Without me playing the new battery card I'm looking at $5300 total settlement with keeping the car. As for the damage, the car was T-boned on the left side, the driver's door likely needs replacement, minor damage to the B-pillar in the lower area around the label with the VIN/manufacture date, this damage causes about 1/8 inch rear door not flush on the rearmost upper corner, rear left door has some damage but I can live with it. The doors close normally, there is no binding or other problems. So the band-aid work is to pull the b-pillar out a bit to make the rear door to sit flush, some mickey-mouse bondo and spray-paint in the area, and replace the front door with a matching used part from e-bay or the like, I'm guessing $2k will cover it.
 
jjeff said:
The thing is if you try and get the retail price up, they may also try and raise the salvage price.... While you could try and wait for it to hit the auto auctions and get it for cheap(assuming you or someone you know has a license to purchase from them) you are taking quite a bit of a chance. If you really want it(I probably would in your case, especially knowing it has a new battery) I wouldn't wait for it to hit the auctions, try and talk to your adjuster and state you'd probably be interested in keeping it but was hoping they could drop the salvage price a bit. Personally I wouldn't mention the new battery but it's up to you, they may already know about it, I wonder if it's recorded somehow in CarFax? Nissan knows for sure, not sure who they pass it on to.
Worst case for $4k for a running Leaf and a basically new battery, I don't see how you could go wrong.

The comps they used didn't have a new battery. I do have a concern about them raising the salvage value. But if they offer me extra $4k for the new battery I may just let them to have the car, chances of this happening are close to nil though.
 
Many auto auctions only allow licensed dealers to bid so if you track your car to an auction you may have to have a dealer bid on it, and there's no way they will to it for free. Additionally, when the dealer transfers title you will have to pay tax and registration. I think taking the insurance offer may be cheaper and less of a Hassel.
 
LKK said:
Many auto auctions only allow licensed dealers to bid so if you track your car to an auction you may have to have a dealer bid on it, and there's no way they will to it for free. Additionally, when the dealer transfers title you will have to pay tax and registration. I think taking the insurance offer may be cheaper and less of a Hassel.

Agreed, so I guess the remaining dilemma is whether or not to try to negotiate the value up based on the new battery if I want to keep the car.
 
Valdemar said:
LKK said:
Many auto auctions only allow licensed dealers to bid so if you track your car to an auction you may have to have a dealer bid on it, and there's no way they will to it for free. Additionally, when the dealer transfers title you will have to pay tax and registration. I think taking the insurance offer may be cheaper and less of a Hassel.

Agreed, so I guess the remaining dilemma is whether or not to try to negotiate the value up based on the new battery if I want to keep the car.

The angle I would take is to attempt to negotiate the salvage first. Then once that is agreed upon they'd probably be less likely to change that. Then you could bring up the new battery and how that greatly impacts the value. It's only fair that they replace the car with one like yours so they need to do one of two things IMO. Find a comparable car with a new battery that the value could be based on or find a comparable car and add the cost of replacing the battery. This should be pretty easy but be ready to push on them if they don't give in right away.

I've never done this as when I had the same experience as you with my ICE that was totaled about 8 months before my 2011 LEAF was delivered they offered a fair buy back price and a fair totaled price.
 
On a slightly related note, I was in a minor crash yesterday. It was my fault, sadly, the result of being distracted by a car hauler unloading vehicles at the side of the road. I accelerated from a stop sign (after stopping) and hit a poor woman in a Ford Escape who had just stopped in front of me to make a left turn. The Escape has serious damage to both left side doors, while my Leaf has only scratches and a shallow gouge on the nose. I feel terrible about it, and my insurance will go up, but I won't be making a claim and no one was injured. I would have expected a lot more damage to the Leaf, given the bent metal on the Ford.
 
I keep wondering in cases like this where the other driver was at fault and is collectable why you have to "settle" for whatever the insurance company offers. Your property was damaged through someones negligence, seems they should be accountable for making you whole. To me that would mean whatever it costs to replace your vehicle with something comparable, and frankly something for your trouble.

Seems like in order to get fair compensation for damage to property (your car) you need to pursue it with a personal injury attorney from that angle.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Seems like in order to get fair compensation for damage to property (your car) you need to pursue it with a personal injury attorney from that angle.

Maybe. Using personal injury attorney is another name for insurance fraud in 50% of the cases if not more. Thankfully no one was injured here, so I guess if I can get a more or less fairly compensated for the property damage I'll just file it under "S**t happens". Also, for better or worse, my insurance is actually paying for it, and they will bill the other side once we settle. It won't cause a rate increase as it is not our fault.
 
Valdemar said:
Maybe. Using personal injury attorney is another name for insurance fraud in 50% of the cases if not more. Thankfully no one was injured here, so I guess if I can get a more or less fairly compensated for the property damage I'll just file it under "S**t happens". Also, for better or worse, my insurance is actually paying for it, and they will bill the other side once we settle. It won't cause a rate increase as it is not our fault.
Kudos for having some principles, seeing all the PIA billboards and TV ads one might wonder if you're a vanishing breed.

This may vary from state to state but I've been advised in such situations if fault is not in question and the at fault party has a reputable insurance company it may be better to work directly with them rather than going through your own company and having them subrogate the claim. For one thing you won't be out the deductible while you're waiting for it be processed, and they may be responsive to requests for things like a loaner car (where you might not even have that coverage on your own policy), having the car repaired at a shop of your choosing, etc. I've almost sensed they were trying to keep me happy in hopes I wouldn't sue... which I didn't either.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
This may vary from state to state but I've been advised in such situations if fault is not in question and the at fault party has a reputable insurance company it may be better to work directly with them rather than going through your own company and having them subrogate the claim. For one thing you won't be out the deductible while you're waiting for it be processed, and they may be responsive to requests for things like a loaner car (where you might not even have that coverage on your own policy), having the car repaired at a shop of your choosing, etc. I've almost sensed they were trying to keep me happy in hopes I wouldn't sue... which I didn't either.

I wouldn't even call my own insurance but it was my wife who understandably freaked out and rushed it while I was away on a trip and she couldn't call me. In the end I think it worked out alright, kudos to Auto Club, they were super responsive, and the deductible was quickly waived once the other side accepted liability.
 
So sorry Valdemar!

This is exactly the situation I've been wondering about. Are people with older Leafs who are getting battery replacements keeping their comprehensive and collision insurance or going self insured? And what's your reasoning?

I'm close to missing out on Nissan's battery "warranty" (or battery lottery), at which point it makes sense for me to spend around $6k to buy a new battery and have essentially the same as a brand new $36k car since the only things that wear are battery, tires, and seat covers. BUT, the book value of my old car is a bit under $6k and once I install a $6k battery the book value will still be exactly the same. Sure, if selling to a knowledgeable private party that would be a point to haggle the price a few hundred dollars, but book value still does not take into account the age of the single biggest wear component of the car.

So what happens in event of a collision? Even a relatively minor collision could easily do $3k to $5k damage. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskt...abbit-and-prius-are-the-worst-in-bumper-tests . I suppose if you have a $3k crash, insurance will pay $3k to put your car back like new. But if you have a $6k crash they'll probably declare the car totalled and give you $6k to pay towards your $36k replacement.

So is it worth paying insurance premiums to cover $6k of car value, with an additional $6k of battery value going uninsured, and with replacement cost of $36k? Or is it better to self insure the first $6k since you must self insure the remaining $6k or $30k anyway?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I keep wondering in cases like this where the other driver was at fault and is collectable why you have to "settle" for whatever the insurance company offers. Your property was damaged through someones negligence, seems they should be accountable for making you whole. To me that would mean whatever it costs to replace your vehicle with something comparable, and frankly something for your trouble.

Seems like in order to get fair compensation for damage to property (your car) you need to pursue it with a personal injury attorney from that angle.

You definitely don't have to accept what they offer. For example in my accident the other person's insurance company tried to tell me that I could still drive my car while they figured out what they wanted to do (got rear ended twice in a Seattle snow "storm") and when I told them that the tail light was broken he said I could just use hand signals. I called my broker to see if there that was absurd as I thought it was and they told me it was. So I called him back and told him no that was not going to work and is not acceptable at which point there was no problem getting a rental car. I thought this was going to be a sign of what I had coming but fortunately they offered way more than I thought the car was worth and considering the damage to the car (completely drivable with a new tail light but rear fender and rear door scratched up) their salvage price was reasonable so it all worked out. But in preparing I had started my own valuation based being properly maintained, etc.

Unless they are really being uncooperative I really don't think you need an attorney considering there are no injuries and the dollars are pretty low.
 
walterbays said:
So what happens in event of a collision? Even a relatively minor collision could easily do $3k to $5k damage. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskt...abbit-and-prius-are-the-worst-in-bumper-tests . I suppose if you have a $3k crash, insurance will pay $3k to put your car back like new. But if you have a $6k crash they'll probably declare the car totalled and give you $6k to pay towards your $36k replacement.

I believe they will total the car if the cost of estimated repairs exceeds 75% of the market value. You replacement cost is for an equivalent used car, not brand new. There are several Leafs with new batteries listed by private parties for $11-12k in my area, I suspect this is the ceiling of what the insurance will offer for my car. Their initial valuation is $9k which I think is more than fair for a car with an original battery as there are several 2011 cars in my area with significantly less mileage than mine that can be had for less than $8k, sounds like you'll at least be missing $3k in battery costs if purchased out of pocket should the car be totaled, possibly more.
 
QueenBee said:
Unless they are really being uncooperative I really don't think you need an attorney considering there are no injuries and the dollars are pretty low.

Plenty of otherwise uninjured drivers develop "neck" and "back pain" following an accident, and use attorneys and doctors to defraud insurance companies based on "medial expenses", this is a standard scheme. I'm not judging, just stating the fact.
 
I had a similar situation to what Valdemar is facing last year. The other driver's insurance company offered a low-ball settlement and then stopped paying for a rental car when I told the adjuster my car was worth more because it had a new battery. I fought with the insurance company, talked with the State of AZ Insurance Department for possible assistance, and ultimately just kept fighting with the othe driver's insurance company until I finally got them up to somewhere close to what it would have cost me to replace the 2011 with a comparable car. I considered using an attorney, but (at least in AZ) attorneys are not interested in taking a case unless there are injuries. Since the crash was not my fault, I expected to be "made whole" and have my legitiment expenses covered, but I found out by researching case law in AZ that is not the case. If I had been injured, my expenses and lost time would have been fully reimbursable. With no injury, I had to really argue with the insurance company to get reimbursed for damaged (or lost) tools and I could not recover personal expenses related to the crash (such as time away from work to go to the shop to remove personal items from the car and the extra cost of gasoline over electricity until I got a permanent replacement car). The insurance company's appraisal form was not designed for electric cars so they listed a new motor on the form to enter a value for the new battery. In addition to this, the insurance company's storage yard trashed the car. I considered buying the car back and converting it to a small flatbed, but when I went to look at it and take photos for my records I discovered they had trashed the interior and damaged the front of the car. This damage explains why my insurance company adjuster came back with a low appraisal when I asked if my company would offer more.

Gerry
 
Stories like that illustrate why maybe you want to at least plant the seed that you're going to pursue a personal injury claim just in hopes of getting a fair shake on the damage to your property.
With all the distracted driving and PAI promotion things are only getting worse. Insurance has already become the biggest expense in owning and operating cars for me and we have unblemished records. I fully expect at some point to give up driving not because of age, senility, or high gas prices, but rather because of the cost of insurance is simply too burdensome.
 
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