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DaveinOlyWA said:
Firetruck41 said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
ok, I am likely wrong but I thought 2" receivers had max rating of 1500 lbs or am I thinking of something else? (could be just the 2" receiver I have...)
2" receiver can tow 10k+ lbs, AFAIK. Depending on the capability of the tow vehicle, of course...

wrong. capacity is dependent upon class and the hitch itself, not the car
Now you're confusing me. You stated a possibility that 2" receivers had a max rating of 1500lbs, I simply pointed out that 2" receivers are capable of many times that.

Maybe I was unclear in my first post. A 2” receiver can be capable of 10k+ lb. If it is capable of that, depends on the manufacturer (construction, material, rating, etc). One should not exceed the weakest point in the tow vehicle/trailer chain, whether it is the vehicle tow capacity, tow vehicle GVWR, hitch w/2" receiver rating, the draw bar rating, the ball rating, tongue weight limit, the trailer GVWR, the trailer tires, GCWR, etc...

So, a 2" receiver hitch could be rated to 1500lb for a sub compact sedan, while a 2" receiver hitch on a 3/4 ton pickup could be rated at 12,000lbs.
 
edatoakrun said:
Tesla's long waiting list for Model 3 needs a caveat
...It is certainly possible Tesla has 400,000 reservations from people who intend to buy a Model 3. But we at Automotive News have reservations of our own, because Tesla has apparently lifted its two-per-person limit on refundable deposits.
This means opportunists could very well be placing $1,000 deposits in bulk...

Its just sad how low some of these web bloggers will go to try to pull down Tesla. They would have you believe that each person actually ordered 20 Tesla 3's, so there are actually only 20,000 customers, or what is their point?? :? I know that each person in line with me was only ordering 1 or 2, and they were REAL pre-orders, for their family. Tesla claims that duplicate orders are purged, and only accounted for .2% of pre-orders. Case closed.
 
keydiver said:
edatoakrun said:
Tesla's long waiting list for Model 3 needs a caveat
...It is certainly possible Tesla has 400,000 reservations from people who intend to buy a Model 3. But we at Automotive News have reservations of our own, because Tesla has apparently lifted its two-per-person limit on refundable deposits.
This means opportunists could very well be placing $1,000 deposits in bulk...

Its just sad how low some of these web bloggers will go to try to pull down Tesla. They would have you believe that each person actually ordered 20 Tesla 3's, so there are actually only 20,000 customers, or what is their point?? :? I know that each person in line with me was only ordering 1 or 2, and they were REAL pre-orders, for their family. Tesla claims that duplicate orders are purged, and only accounted for .2% of pre-orders. Case closed.

Geez guys, at least something Model 3 related ... I've been watching this topic and all I'm seeing is stuff about (at least 9 posts) towing a trailer with a LEAF ... as to the multiple reservations; I'd be curious how they can rout these out as I'm sure some set up 20 (or perhaps 10 with two reservation per) email addresses but it would be hard to list 20 unique physical addresses so perhaps that's how they recognized them ... perhaps they'll return a deposit if they see this kind of abuse --- kind of like Elon did with a potential Model X buyer

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/03/elon-musk-blogger-tesla-motors-model-x

When you have all this exposure its always easy to take pot shots ---
 
edatoakrun said:
Wahlman, a Tesla skeptic, suggests other possibilities...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3969630-put-20-refundable-deposits-tesla-model-3

Anton Wahlman has a long history of dissing Tesla - and is a major GM backer. He was one of the first to talk about GM's plans for a 200 mile car. Does he get special access to GM because of his Tesla hate or is it the other way round.
 
keydiver said:
edatoakrun said:
Tesla's long waiting list for Model 3 needs a caveat
...It is certainly possible Tesla has 400,000 reservations from people who intend to buy a Model 3. But we at Automotive News have reservations of our own, because Tesla has apparently lifted its two-per-person limit on refundable deposits.
This means opportunists could very well be placing $1,000 deposits in bulk...

Its just sad how low some of these web bloggers will go to try to pull down Tesla. They would have you believe that each person actually ordered 20 Tesla 3's, so there are actually only 20,000 customers, or what is their point?? :? I know that each person in line with me was only ordering 1 or 2, and they were REAL pre-orders, for their family. Tesla claims that duplicate orders are purged, and only accounted for .2% of pre-orders. Case closed.

https://medium.com/@chamath/hey-jerkwater-do-your-math-on-tsla-a29a6435f515#.mr9jrkvpn

<snip>
For those unfamiliar, Second Measure has a panel of several million US credit and debit cards and subsequently provides remarkably deep analytics on spending behavior across a very large subset of US households.

The Second Measure data was irrefutable. It indicated to us that of all pre-ordering customers, 96% reserved only a single car. A further 3.5% reserved two cars and <0.5% made 3 or more. Put another way, the pre-order figures that Tesla is releasing could only overstate unique customers by no more than ~4%, and the true speculative bubble, if any, was limited to less than 0.5% of the buying population.
<snip>
 
redLEAF said:
keydiver said:

Its just sad how low some of these web bloggers will go to try to pull down Tesla. They would have you believe that each person actually ordered 20 Tesla 3's, so there are actually only 20,000 customers, or what is their point?? :? I know that each person in line with me was only ordering 1 or 2, and they were REAL pre-orders, for their family. Tesla claims that duplicate orders are purged, and only accounted for .2% of pre-orders. Case closed.

Geez guys, at least something Model 3 related ... I've been watching this topic and all I'm seeing is stuff about (at least 9 posts) towing a trailer with a LEAF ... as to the multiple reservations; I'd be curious how they can rout these out as I'm sure some set up 20 (or perhaps 10 with two reservation per) email addresses but it would be hard to list 20 unique physical addresses so perhaps that's how they recognized them ... perhaps they'll return a deposit if they see this kind of abuse --- kind of like Elon did with a potential Model X buyer

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/03/elon-musk-blogger-tesla-motors-model-x

When you have all this exposure its always easy to take pot shots ---


Yes that was a pretty lame article and way out there allegation about bumping up pre orders. Although I'm not an IT guy I could see how tesla would have wanted to make it smooth as possible for the system to take reservations for the day of the pre order and then sort through and deal with multiples later. After all you could wright a system to block the same IP from doing multiple reservations but what if you had 2 or even 3 people at a work site sharing an internet connection to put their orders in? What if you have someone using the same credit card but different email addresses because the actual buyer doesn't like the idea of having a credit card and has tons of cash.
 
minispeed said:
redLEAF said:
keydiver said:
Its just sad how low some of these web bloggers will go to try to pull down Tesla. They would have you believe that each person actually ordered 20 Tesla 3's, so there are actually only 20,000 customers, or what is their point?? :? I know that each person in line with me was only ordering 1 or 2, and they were REAL pre-orders, for their family. Tesla claims that duplicate orders are purged, and only accounted for .2% of pre-orders. Case closed.


When you have all this exposure its always easy to take pot shots ---


After all you could wright a system to block the same IP from doing multiple reservations but what if you had 2 or even 3 people at a work site sharing an internet connection to put their orders in? What if you have someone using the same credit card but different email addresses because the actual buyer doesn't like the idea of having a credit card and has tons of cash.

That last one actually did present an issue for a small portion of potential 'don't use credit/debit cards' buyers ... they showed up at a Tesla store with checkbook in hand and were turned away as the system was automated for use with credit/debit cards only. As far as using the same credit card; I'm sure the limit to two reservations; perhaps after the fact some reservations were cancelled if it was found on more than that. Seem to recall use of PayPal mentioned as an option but when I was watching the Tesla sales person putting in my reservation on 3/31, didn't see that option so may have come later with the self-service online ones. Linking PayPal to your bank could avoid the use of a credit card if Tesla would accept it.
 
redLEAF said:
minispeed said:
redLEAF said:
When you have all this exposure its always easy to take pot shots ---


After all you could wright a system to block the same IP from doing multiple reservations but what if you had 2 or even 3 people at a work site sharing an internet connection to put their orders in? What if you have someone using the same credit card but different email addresses because the actual buyer doesn't like the idea of having a credit card and has tons of cash.

That last one actually did present an issue for a small portion of potential 'don't use credit/debit cards' buyers ... they showed up at a Tesla store with checkbook in hand and were turned away as the system was automated for use with credit/debit cards only. As far as using the same credit card; I'm sure the limit to two reservations; perhaps after the fact some reservations were cancelled if it was found on more than that. Seem to recall use of PayPal mentioned as an option but when I was watching the Tesla sales person putting in my reservation on 3/31, didn't see that option so may have come later with the self-service online ones. Linking PayPal to your bank could avoid the use of a credit card if Tesla would accept it.


I'm not a reservation holder... but my wife is, probably number 399,999 since she didn't like it from the Tesla limited shots the next day (she was sleeping when it launched). When I showed it to her I said, "I like the big one better, it's a hatch, you know the one we drove". She agreed. When I showed her the motor trend test drive video she said "wow I like it, I want one".... So by then no paypal wasn't an option, at least I didn't notice it. I usually use it when it is since it saves me the time of typing out the numbers and I was doing it on my phone. I did also notice the online form looked the same when I checked it out on launch and it looked like it was designed to be very low key and simple to avoid slow downs on the launch date.
 
redLEAF said:
While we all wait ... someone built their own online Model 3 configurator; nicely done!

Just has potential exterior colors and 2 types of wheels but a great start

http://www.model3config.com/

Leaning towards the titanium metallic myself


They've added an interior color option palette as well ... just one the many combos (same site as before) ... not bad for an 'unoffcial' site

interior-model-3.jpg
 
Tesla now offers a less expensive Model S. A 60 kWh version that employs a 75kWh pack which can be SW upgraded for $8500 at a later date. I think this is a good move. Probably lots of Model 3 line-waiters (and others) who want a new Tesla now but won't pay the $70k+ price. Those in line for a Model 3 but don't think they'll get the $7500 tax credit might jump for this as well.
This 60 is less than the original by $4k.

CNBC story here:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/09/tesla-is-bringing-back-the-lower-priced-model-s.html
 
sparky said:
Tesla now offers a less expensive Model S. A 60 kWh version that employs a 75kWh pack which can be SW upgraded for $8500 at a later date. I think this is a good move. Probably lots of Model 3 line-waiters (and others) who want a new Tesla now but won't pay the $70k+ price. Those in line for a Model 3 but don't think they'll get the $7500 tax credit might jump for this as well.
This 60 is less than the original by $4k.

CNBC story here:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/09/tesla-is-bringing-back-the-lower-priced-model-s.html
Note that it's an $8,500 option for the 75kWh version at purchase, $9k upgrade after purchase (same way the SC capability upgrade originally worked).
 
sparky said:
Tesla now offers a less expensive Model S. A 60 kWh version that employs a 75kWh pack which can be SW upgraded for $8500 at a later date. I think this is a good move. Probably lots of Model 3 line-waiters (and others) who want a new Tesla now but won't pay the $70k+ price. Those in line for a Model 3 but don't think they'll get the $7500 tax credit might jump for this as well.
This 60 is less than the original by $4k.

CNBC story here:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/09/tesla-is-bringing-back-the-lower-priced-model-s.html
No, It's $1,400 less than the original price of the 60 kWh: https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/2013-model-s-price-increase.

However, the 60 kWh back then didn't include Supercharger access. I believe it was $2000 to add it at order time and $2500 to enable it later.
 
sparky said:
Tesla now offers a less expensive Model S. A 60 kWh version that employs a 75kWh pack which can be SW upgraded for $8500 at a later date. I think this is a good move. Probably lots of Model 3 line-waiters (and others) who want a new Tesla now but won't pay the $70k+ price. Those in line for a Model 3 but don't think they'll get the $7500 tax credit might jump for this as well.
This 60 is less than the original by $4k.

CNBC story here:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/09/tesla-is-bringing-back-the-lower-priced-model-s.html
Much as you suggest here, there is some speculation over at TMC that this move was because of the long line of Model 3 reservations: the idea is to bring back a more affordable S to give some of those people a chance to make the move to a Tesla now and, once they own one, Tesla likely has a repeat customer in the future.

Something that shouldn't be overlooked is that the new S60 should have faster Supercharging times than the old S60, similar to the S75, and it can be charged to "100%" routinely. [The fastest charging speed I've seen on my old S60 was 274 miles/hour when the battery was warm and below 5%, which is on the slow side by Tesla standards and, of course, the taper starts earlier on my older 60 kWh battery than it will on the new 75kWh battery limited to 60.] The battery also ought to last a bit longer since some of the eventual degradation will be reduced or hidden.

The new S60 should have a good trade-in value for Tesla since they can unlock the cars and turn them into S75 and S75D models for resale as CPO (Certified Pre-Owned).

Given this new development, I'd expect current CPO (used) S60 prices to drop by quite a bit in the next few months. In recent weeks Tesla had a big push to sell its inventory of CPO S60s at rather high prices (some high $40k but most in the $50k range). Now I know why!
 
sparky said:
Tesla now offers a less expensive Model S. A 60 kWh version that employs a 75kWh pack which can be SW upgraded for $8500 at a later date. I think this is a good move. Probably lots of Model 3 line-waiters (and others) who want a new Tesla now but won't pay the $70k+ price. Those in line for a Model 3 but don't think they'll get the $7500 tax credit might jump for this as well.
This 60 is less than the original by $4k.

CNBC story here:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/09/tesla-is-bringing-back-the-lower-priced-model-s.html

15 Kwh for $8500? and people complain about LEAF battery pricing?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
sparky said:
Tesla now offers a less expensive Model S. A 60 kWh version that employs a 75kWh pack which can be SW upgraded for $8500 at a later date. I think this is a good move. Probably lots of Model 3 line-waiters (and others) who want a new Tesla now but won't pay the $70k+ price. Those in line for a Model 3 but don't think they'll get the $7500 tax credit might jump for this as well.
This 60 is less than the original by $4k.

CNBC story here:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/09/tesla-is-bringing-back-the-lower-priced-model-s.html

15 Kwh for $8500? and people complain about LEAF battery pricing?
Good point. Gotta love the double standard. ;)

Before the Model S began shipping, there were originally 3 available battery capacities: 40, 60 and 85 kWh. Each step up in battery capacity was $10K. Those prices are listed in the table at https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/2013-model-s-price-increase.
 
Tesla Model 3 will have larger cells than the current Tesla vehicles and it will have about half the number of cells as the current Model S/X. <link>
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
sparky said:
Tesla now offers a less expensive Model S. A 60 kWh version that employs a 75kWh pack which can be SW upgraded for $8500 at a later date. I think this is a good move. Probably lots of Model 3 line-waiters (and others) who want a new Tesla now but won't pay the $70k+ price. Those in line for a Model 3 but don't think they'll get the $7500 tax credit might jump for this as well.
This 60 is less than the original by $4k.

CNBC story here:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/09/tesla-is-bringing-back-the-lower-priced-model-s.html

15 Kwh for $8500? and people complain about LEAF battery pricing?
Yes, but Tesla batteries last twice as long. ;-)
 
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