EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

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MikeD said:
baustin: I notice from your link that GE's DuraStation is ETL listed, but not UL listed, whereas GE's Watt-Station is both UL listed and ETL listed, as are most commercial EVSEs that I am aware of. From a safety standpoint I wonder why.

One further observation is this Installation Guide does not specify the EVSE circuit be a dedicated one, which I suspect is an (unfortunate) oversight. Contrast this rather skimpy 6 page document with the generously detailed 33 page "Installation and Operations Manual" for the VersiCharge.

I just installed a DuraStation from Home Depot, for $399 plus sales tax, free shipping. There are several different listing labs, the fact that some dual listed them and GE did not simply indicates a marketing ploy or lack of it. One listing is just as good as the other. The general public is used to seeing the UL listing label and anything else confuses them, so many manufacturers go to the expense of the UL listing when another listing lab can do the same job for less money. Since the DuraStation resembles a high school shop project anyhow, I doubt GE cared about marketing needs that the UL listing be present.

An examination of the board inside shows that it was originally designed for use possibly in some of the public use charge stations that GE makes. There is a place for an Ethernet connector to be soldered (the connector is not there, but the board is labeled Ethernet, and the holes and circuit traces are there) and there are a couple of other places where "accessories" should be that are not.

The big case doubles as a handy hanging place for the cord, and also allows for lots of room inside for the incoming wires and also for heat dissipation.

Its almost like some GE manager told some engineer to make an inexpensive product as quickly as possible and they grabbed a bunch of off the shelf parts and put one together, drafted some vague instructions and put it out there. I'm actually impressed, it should sell like hotcakes. Only the weenies who grumble about it being too "ugly" to put on the wall of their garage will bypass it and spend more money on something that does the same thing.

Note the instructions don't even tell you what voltage to connect to, since it is to be professionally installed, they expect the installer to figure it out. Mine is in a large metal building in my back yard that I fully wired and equipped myself, with EMT conduit, and this DuraStation is mounted right next to the panel, which is located between a man door and a 12w x 14h glass garage door, so the install was easy. I ordered a J1772 "holster" from a Ebay seller and screwed it to the plywood the Durastation is mounted on and this makes the installation look a little more finished, and keeps the mud daubers out of the connector when it is not in use.

Forgot to mention, since the unit is intended to be hardwired only (anything else would violate the listing) and the ability to step down in output is controlled with a jumper on the motherboard, then GE has the ability to market it as being able to be placed on smaller circuits. Other units such as the Siemens allow you the user to select the step down, and with user controlled adjustments they have to specify the largest possible circuit and not allow anything smaller.

Charles
 
I just got my 2015 Leaf and wanted a semi-permanent (but easily movable) quick charge solution for my garage, so based on some forum topics here and elsewhere came up with a straightforward solution.

My home has the laundry area in the garage and I had an existing, dedicated, 240v 30-amp plug for my dryer just a few feet from where I'd need to mount the EVSE anyways. I wanted to avoid any major electrical or additions to my main panel, so I got a Clipper Creek LCS-25 with the hardwire option. I then simply ordered a Leviton Nema 10-30 plug from Amazon and wired that onto the hardwire cord. The connection was very simple, just strip a bit of the wire and then screw it into the three terminals of the plug.

This setup works perfectly, I just unplug the dryer at night and plug in the charger. It adds about 25% charge to the battery per hour. For the price it's a great solution for me and I can very easily uninstall it, hardwire it or change the plug type if I decide to. I realize it's not quite as fast as a "full speed" charger on a bigger circuit, but on the whole it was a very cost effective and flexible solution.
 
xmetal said:
I just got my 2015 Leaf and wanted a semi-permanent (but easily movable) quick charge solution for my garage, so based on some forum topics here and elsewhere came up with a straightforward solution.

My home has the laundry area in the garage and I had an existing, dedicated, 240v 30-amp plug for my dryer just a few feet from where I'd need to mount the EVSE anyways. I wanted to avoid any major electrical or additions to my main panel, so I got a Clipper Creek LCS-25 with the hardwire option. I then simply ordered a Leviton Nema 10-30 plug from Amazon and wired that onto the hardwire cord. The connection was very simple, just strip a bit of the wire and then screw it into the three terminals of the plug.

This setup works perfectly, I just unplug the dryer at night and plug in the charger. It adds about 25% charge to the battery per hour. For the price it's a great solution for me and I can very easily uninstall it, hardwire it or change the plug type if I decide to. I realize it's not quite as fast as a "full speed" charger on a bigger circuit, but on the whole it was a very cost effective and flexible solution.

The dryer outlet works well for many. On a 30A circuit you can charge at 24A. That is pretty close to the Leaf's 27.5A.

This is a great solution for renters or anyone that does not want to have a dedicated line installed.

The main problem is wear and tear on the socket. NEC does not allow a switchbox, only one device connected at a time.

here in Southern California most dryers are gas. If you have an electric outlet it can be dedicated to the EVSE avoiding the socket wear and tear.

The Clipper Creek EVSE is a 20A unit so there is no danger of over loading the circuit and it is plenty for a complete overnight charge. Their model numbers refer to the circuit needed, not the charging current.
 
Hi...We have a Nissan Leaf but will buy a Tesla in 6 months. I want to install a wall mounted charger that works for both Nissan and Tesla. Does anyone the specs I need the electrician to do this installation and EVSE charger (for example, min 40 amps)? I was going to have the electrician install a 240V outlet and then just purchase a plug-in charger but this might not be as efficient (after reading all the other posts/comments in the forum).
Many thanks,Adam
 
DCelectric said:
Hi...We have a Nissan Leaf but will buy a Tesla in 6 months. I want to install a wall mounted charger that works for both Nissan and Tesla. Does anyone the specs I need the electrician to do this installation and EVSE charger (for example, min 40 amps)? I was going to have the electrician install a 240V outlet and then just purchase a plug-in charger but this might not be as efficient (after reading all the other posts/comments in the forum).
Many thanks,Adam
Tesla doesn't need an EVSE. Do the outlet thing. You want a NEMA 14-50, with a 50 amp breaker (which you'll only run at 40 amps continuous load).

There's no meaningful loss of efficiency from a plug-in vs. hardwired EVSE, dunno where you got that. Hardwired is sometimes preferred for outdoor installations.
 
DCelectric said:
Hi...We have a Nissan Leaf but will buy a Tesla in 6 months. I want to install a wall mounted charger that works for both Nissan and Tesla. Does anyone the specs I need the electrician to do this installation and EVSE charger (for example, min 40 amps)? I was going to have the electrician install a 240V outlet and then just purchase a plug-in charger but this might not be as efficient (after reading all the other posts/comments in the forum).
Many thanks,Adam
Any standard J1772 wall mount EVSE will work for the LEAF and the Tesla (with the supplied adapter). While the Tesla will come with a 50 amp (40 amp usable) EVSE they call a UMC, it won't work for a LEAF. So, if you want to install just one device, a standard EVSE of the sort you can get from Home Depot will suffice for both cars. Whether you get an EVSE that is hard wired or plug-in is up to you.

If your electrical panel can handle it, I suggest installing a 50 amp 14-50 receptacle and then getting an EVSE that you can plug-in to that (perhaps with an appropriate adapter) or just hard wire the EVSE to the 50 amp circuit, if you prefer. If you want to charge the Tesla at 40 amps you ought to get an EVSE that is rated for that much current. But when charging overnight, the difference between 24 amps, 32 amps or 40 amps really isn't significant and any of those currents will suffice for both a LEAF or a Tesla. For example:

24 amps x 240 volts = 5.76 kW, or about 6 hours to add 30 kWh to the battery (counting charging losses).
32 amps x 240 volts = 7.68 kW, or about 4½ hours to add 30 kWh to the battery (this is more than the current LEAF models can use since they are limited to 6.6 kW)
40 amps x 240 volts = 9.6 kW, or about 3½ hours to add 30 kWh to the battery (this is near the maximum for a Tesla Model S with a single charger)

How much charge one needs depends on the typical mileage one drives. In mild conditions you might get 3.3 miles/kWh for the Tesla and 4 miles/kWh for the LEAF. For slow speeds or other efficient driving you might get numbers considerably higher (I do). Winter driving and heater use will usually give lower numbers.
 
Wow. Thanks. This is great advice.

I was looking at the JuiceBox Pro. I know it has 40amp which is more than I need for a Leaf but I'm just thinking about future usage. Plus it is not much more than the ClipperCreek LCS-25P, 20 amp, NEMA 14-50 (note: JuiceBox has an offer that prices the Pro to about $550).

Do you have any experience with this company?

Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
 
DCelectric said:
Wow. Thanks. This is great advice.

I was looking at the JuiceBox Pro. I know it has 40amp which is more than I need for a Leaf but I'm just thinking about future usage. Plus it is not much more than the ClipperCreek LCS-25P, 20 amp, NEMA 14-50 (note: JuiceBox has an offer that prices the Pro to about $550).

Do you have any experience with this company?

Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
I don't have any experience with them but there are others here who do.

I've been using EVSEupgrade for my LEAF but the early Nissan/Panasonic EVSEs (2011/2012) won't work with Teslas according to EVSEupgrade. So, I put in a 14-50 receptacle and will use that with the Tesla UMC when the car gets delivered (next week, I hope). I expect to trade-in the LEAF because I don't need two cars.
 
DCelectric said:
Wow. Thanks. This is great advice.

I was looking at the JuiceBox Pro. I know it has 40amp which is more than I need for a Leaf but I'm just thinking about future usage. Plus it is not much more than the ClipperCreek LCS-25P, 20 amp, NEMA 14-50 (note: JuiceBox has an offer that prices the Pro to about $550).

Do you have any experience with this company?

Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.

I have a JuiceBox Pro 40 and absolutely love it !! A Great product with great customer service.
 
JESLA is the 40 amp (9.6kW) J1772 / Type 1 premium portable charging cable works at up to full power on every known J1772 equipped vehicle in the world.

Here's a nice article, written by one of our customers:

http://www.wind-works.org/cms/index.php?id=84&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=3885&cHash=30950535275759c616aecc4c0efca8ad

JESLA was designed specifically with the unique 40 amp Tesla onboard charger that is in a Mercedes B-Class ED, Toyota RAV4 EV, and of course Tesla cars, but it also works equally fantastic with cars like the BMW i3, Fiat 500e, Chevy Volt, Kia Soul EV or Nissan LEAF. It is ultra flexible, light weight (only 8 pounds total!), and portable, PLUS it adjusts from 100 to 250 volts and 12 to 40 amps, automatically. You don't have to know anything about electricity and no installation required;

Just Plug-N-Charge(tm)!!!

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA-is-THE-40-amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-JESLA.htm

JELSA ships with NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 5-15 plugs, a padlock, plus a carrying bag. Additionally, you may want to buy the correct plug for your dryer (handy for visiting friends or relatives at their house) or for motel air conditioners:

...........................................VOLTS / AMPS.....kW
NEMA 5-15* ......Standard Outlet.. 120 V / 12 A...... 1.4 kW
NEMA 6-15 .......Air Conditioners.. 240 V / 12 A ..... 2.8kW
NEMA 5-20 ...... Motel A/C .......... 120 V / 16 A....... 1.9 kW
NEMA 14-50*.....RV Parks ........... 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW

*included plugs

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=adapter

**********

Be sure to get a 50 amp circuit installed at your charging location with a NEMA 14-50R receptacle. We sell the receptacle here for just $5.99 (cheaper than Home Depot or Lowes):

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/14-50R-Outlet-14-50R.htm



Thanks,

Tony Williams
R&D Manager
Quick Charge Power LLC

*************

Charge Station Federal Tax Credit

In case you hadn’t already heard the great news, we are pleased to announce you can once again take advantage of a federal tax credit for installing electric vehicle charging stations at your home or business.

Congress has renewed the "Alternate Fuel Infrastructure Tax Credit", which provides a tax credit of 30% (up to $1000 credit) of the pruchase and installation cost of electric vehicle charging stattions. The tax credit is valid for all 2016 installations.
 
Thanks for all the insights. I went with a JuiceBox Pro 40amp. Aside from a good product, I just found that the team behind this product to be really easy to speak with and super knowledgable about all the options on the market. No hard sell. Let's see how it plays out...
 
too bad the juice Box isn't UL listed. I'd be worried the damn thing would catch fire as it hasn't been tested. It's a shame Amazon lets these fly by night companies like Jukebox sell their non-listed product to consumers that don't know any better. There are a few other products on amazon.com that also are not UL listed and do not meet the USA safety standards. I know what it takes to get these devices listed, you are buying a short cut! I wouldn't want the damn think charging high current in my garage.
 
tomelectric said:
too bad the juice Box isn't UL listed. I'd be worried the damn thing would catch fire as it hasn't been tested. It's a shame Amazon lets these fly by night companies like Jukebox sell their non-listed product to consumers that don't know any better. There are a few other products on amazon.com that also are not UL listed and do not meet the USA safety standards. I know what it takes to get these devices listed, you are buying a short cut! I wouldn't want the damn think charging high current in my garage.
You actually joined up just to post that? Sounds like someone has an ax to grind.
 
davewill said:
tomelectric said:
too bad the juice Box isn't UL listed. I'd be worried the damn thing would catch fire as it hasn't been tested. It's a shame Amazon lets these fly by night companies like Jukebox sell their non-listed product to consumers that don't know any better. There are a few other products on amazon.com that also are not UL listed and do not meet the USA safety standards. I know what it takes to get these devices listed, you are buying a short cut! I wouldn't want the damn think charging high current in my garage.
You actually joined up just to post that? Sounds like someone has an ax to grind.
That or more than likely......someone with an agenda..... :idea:
IMO UL listing is somewhat extortion money, you pay someone a good amount of money and they bless your product. Devices like Juicebox, open source and even Ebusbar are often times made to UL specs(good idea as oftentimes UL spec is a good benchmark) but they don't pay the extortion money. Listen, outside the US these devices are sold to people all over the world and work just fine, why is it only in the US that they need UL certification to work correctly.....
I've seen UL listed devices fail and cause issues like non UL devices, after all wasn't the original GE Wattmeiser?? UL listed and didn't it cause serious issues? I'm not suggesting purchasing any POS Chinese EVSE but as long as it's made decently and seems to have good reviews I'm willing to forgo the UL blessing. Come to think of it all 4 of my EVSE's lack UL listing(Juicebox, Ebusbar and 2 EVSEupgrade'd units) and I never have a issue with any of them on either of my Leafs, of course YMMV ;)
 
jjeff said:
IMO UL listing is somewhat extortion money, you pay someone a good amount of money and they bless your product. Devices like Juicebox, open source and even Ebusbar are often times made to UL specs(good idea as oftentimes UL spec is a good benchmark) but they don't pay the extortion money. Listen, outside the US these devices are sold to people all over the world and work just fine, why is it only in the US that they need UL certification to work correctly.....
I've seen UL listed devices fail and cause issues like non UL devices, after all wasn't the original GE Wattmeiser?? UL listed and didn't it cause serious issues? I'm not suggesting purchasing any POS Chinese EVSE but as long as it's made decently and seems to have good reviews I'm willing to forgo the UL blessing. Come to think of it all 4 of my EVSE's lack UL listing(Juicebox, Ebusbar and 2 EVSEupgrade'd units) and I never have a issue with any of them on either of my Leafs, of course YMMV ;)

+1

When I was looking for an EVSE and talking to folks here, I could totally see that there are certain users who would bash JuiceBox to no end as it lacked UL Listing. I wondered if they were sales rep from other "UL Listed manufacturer". I was scared into insurance company denying my claims etc. and I did call my insurance agent only for him to laugh at me. While UL or any other NRTL approval/listing assures some quality check, if you have an absolutely positive feedback about the product there's nothing to worry about. This thing is built like a tank and they have a team of knowledgeable staff to support it.

I am grateful to users who provided detailed info on this product. One local JuiceBox owner actually demo'ed the unit to me. I am glad that I chose to go with JuiceBox Pro. Those features are hard to beat at that price. Great product, Great value.
 
Count me as another satisfied JuiceBox Pro customer. I've had the unit for a year now and would buy it again.

On the downside, shipping and delivery were slow, and they sent it with Direct Signature required (grr!). By the time I got to the door, the UPS guy was already gone, and I couldn't even sign the little door tag requesting that they just leave it the next day.

I didn't have good WiFi service in my garage, so I had to install an external antenna and a signal booster in order to make the tracking and remote control functions work reliably -- using a little more power to see how much power I'm saving.
 
The Tesla UMC, which is installed in every Tesla car sold, is not UL listed. By extension, our JESLA J1772 40 amp charger is not UL listed (based on the Tesla UMC).

Neither are any of our products that we sell. I take great exception to any blowhard suggesting our products are not safe or that we cut some safety standards. The only EV charging product that I've had dangerous issues with was that UL listed Blink, which melted itself to my car.

That's not to say that there isn't dangerous stuff out there. There absolutely is. But, UL isn't the magic savior that some want to believe.

********

We have lowered the price of JESLA by $100 to just $899.

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA-is-THE-40-amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-JESLA.htm


********


JLong is the perfect compliment for any EV that needs to charge. JLong can extend the length of the charge cord by 5 to 40 feet.

You don't need to know anything about volts or amps. No technical knowledge required. Just "Plug-N-Charge(TM)"

JLong is for those charge stations where the cord won't easily reach the back of the car. Or, for those visits to somebody's house to charge from the dryer electrical outlet or other home wall outlet using your own (always too short) portable charge cable.

It works at long term airport parking, so that you can park in an adjacent (non-EV) spot and get fully charged without blocking out the dedicated EV spot for a week or two. Just lock the JLong to your car and leave a note when your car is done charging.

I use JLong a lot around the house when another car is blocking my charge spot, or when I park in the driveway but still need to charge from my garage mounted charge station.

You are fully protected by all the safety protections of J1772 (proximity disconnect, ground fault, pilot signal, etc) with JLong. Plus, it's fully 40 amp capable, light weight and very portable. One of our top sellers.

JLong works with EVERY plug-in car sold in North America, and EVERY J1772 / L1 / L2 charge station (Type 1 in Europe).

It's not if you need JLong, it's when.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BE8WIBU

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JLONG-40-Amp-J1772-extension-cable-JL40A.htm
 
I am of the opinion that there is no magic in any of the car chargers. You plug them in, and the car tells them when to turn off.

Considering how many choices we have in charging stations, I will not buy a product that is not UL listed, because we live in America, and that is how we do it. An those who say that UL listing is just "extortion money" are doing the same logic like those who say, "Why get married.... It is just a piece of paper". Wrong. It assures that corners were not cut.. I bought a non-UL listed extension cord at a dollar store, and it got HOT when I plugged in a lamp!! I threw it out...

If you buy a NON _UL listed charger, for a $500 box, are you willing to risk a $30K automobile, and possible a fire in your home? If for some fluke it went on fire, there are chances that your fire insurance would not pay because it was not UL Listed.

You people who love the "Juice BOX" must be enamored with its cool name, because there is no way that you can measure its performance from any other charging station...
 
powersurge said:
...
If you buy a NON _UL listed charger, for a $500 box, are you willing to risk a $30K automobile, and possible a fire in your home? If for some fluke it went on fire, there are chances that your fire insurance would not pay because it was not UL Listed.

You people who love the "Juice BOX" must be enamored with its cool name, because there is no way that you can measure its performance from any other charging station...
Wow, good thing you posted. I had no idea that Tesla was putting all their customers at risk by not UL listing their mobile connector. :roll:

I ordered a JuicePlug in order to get power logging and timer functions that the dumb EVSE my wife's car has doesn't offer. Later on, I expect to be able to use it to load share between a JuiceBox and my Blink. What's that? Your EVSE doesn't have those features? What a surprise.

Look, it's fine if you don't like them and don't want one, and feel free to express your opinion on the available choices, but throwing FUD around is not all right.
 
powersurge said:
If you buy a NON _UL listed charger, for a $500 box, are you willing to risk a $30K automobile, and possible a fire in your home?

If there was any weight in this theory, the sleaze ball corporate lawyers would have sued pants off of Elon Musk for selling a 100K car with a non UL listed UMC that we all fondly call a "charger". Not everyone drinks the UL cool-aid which is just one of the many NRTL certifications. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationally_Recognized_Testing_Laboratories)

BTW, on this forum alone, there have been more issues reported with the UL Listed GE Durastation EVSE as compared to JuiceBox.

davewill said:
...Look, it's fine if you don't like them and don't want one, and feel free to express your opinion on the available choices, but throwing FUD around is not all right.

+1
 
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