Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Here is an updated test version of LeafSpy Pro that adds any serial number information, if available, to an ECU listing.

2011 and 2013 data

QJJz90.png
kFaPxG.png
 
NocturnalWalt said:
There is other stuff I've found too, but I haven't put any time into making sense of it yet (I probably wont for a while either as my playing has lead me off in another direction). For anyone interested in taking this further themselves, these three requests to the LBC (one at a time) will read the current battery data stored in the LBC.

0x: 02 21 61 FF FF FF FF FF

0x: 02 21 62 FF FF FF FF FF

0x: 02 21 64 FF FF FF FF FF

I bet some of that data is in this: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=8260

:twisted:
 
Turbo 3 - That test version of LeafSpy Pro is evolving very nicely. Consult doesn't have the ability to read the Meter part number either which confirms exactly what you've already found. I hadn't tried firing that 84 serial number request at any of the other control modules, but that's interesting to know that things like the inverter and charger also report their serial number.

caederus - My interest/goals mostly hinge around having a lot more flexibility to swap and or upgrade the HV battery than we have now. Thanks for your offer of help - I'm sure I'll be able to take you up on that at some point. It is handy that you have a UK built Leaf. My 2013 Leaf is a JDM model and Turbo3's is USDM so that gives us a good base for us to compare findings against. I worked out the request/response IDs for different control modules by observing Consult making requests to the control modules I am interested in. Your LBC Serial results look quite different to the ones I've found and Turbo3 posted. They may be right, but it also might be worth re-checking your method and results.

I bet some of that data is in this: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=8260
JeremyW - Yeah I suspected the same thing.
 
NocturnalWalt said:
My interest/goals mostly hinge around having a lot more flexibility to swap and or upgrade the HV battery than we have now.
That would be great, and I'm sure we can get further along that path, though I suspect reprogramming any intentional safety/security checks will be tricky.

I worked out the request/response IDs for different control modules by observing Consult making requests to the control modules I am interested in.
Do you have access to one? I wish I did - it would be so useful for checking many things.

Your LBC Serial results look quite different to the ones I've found and Turbo3 posted. They may be right, but it also might be worth re-checking your method and results.
You mean query 79b, group 84? If that is also what Turbo3 is calling HV BATTERY, it doesn't seem so different to me.
Code:
Yours   230SM114xxxxxxxx
Mine    230UK114BM001313
T3-2011 230JT1113A001477
T3-2013 230SM1135H000676

Here's the full candump log of the transaction:
Code:
can0>79b#022184ffffffffff
can0<7bb#1016618432333055  ..a.230U
can0>79b#300100ffffffffff
can0<7bb#214b313134424d30  !K114BM0
can0>79b#300100ffffffffff
can0<7bb#2230313331332020  "01313
can0>79b#300100ffffffffff
can0<7bb#232020ffffffffff  #  .....
can0>79b#300100ffffffffff
timeout
 
Sorry caederus! You are absolutely correct about your LBC serial number looking completely normal. What I somehow missed in your data was that you were just showing us the other control modules that also return serial numbers with that 84 request. Turbo3 obviously picked up on that, but I clearly wasn't paying attention or I was running in zombie mode after a long day or something :) Full credit to you for finding those. Yes I have somewhat frequent access to Consult.
 
NocturnalWalt said:
caederus - My interest/goals mostly hinge around having a lot more flexibility to swap and or upgrade the HV battery than we have now

And how is this progressing? Is there hope?
 
Turbo3 said:
Here is an updated test version of LeafSpy Pro that adds any serial number information,....

Reading serial ... thats fine. Consult does that, but what is the practical application of knowing the serial?
Any plans to create the "Battery Programming Card" to be able to write into the LBS? Right now as others mentioned here - there is not much "flexibility" in swapping the pack. I would call it not a lack of flexibility but rather a huge issue - to open two packs and to swap the LBS (done recently in Auckland). Otherwise with the "card" handy it would not be required - just few minutes of reprog...
 
analyser said:
Turbo3 said:
Here is an updated test version of LeafSpy Pro that adds any serial number information,....

Reading serial ... thats fine. Consult does that, but what is the practical application of knowing the serial?
Any plans to create the "Battery Programming Card" to be able to write into the LBS? Right now as others mentioned here - there is not much "flexibility" in swapping the pack. I would call it not a lack of flexibility but rather a huge issue - to open two packs and to swap the LBS (done recently in Auckland). Otherwise with the "card" handy it would not be required - just few minutes of reprog...
LeafSpy provides information like any good spy. It is up to the user(s) to decide how to use it. But knowing the battery serial number might tell you something about when/how the battery was manufactured if enough people report their data. Parts of the serial number might change based on chemistry or other interesting factors.

I would guess the "Battery Programming Card" generates a special code number required to marry the VCM and BMS ECU using the battery's serial number. A CAN trace of the process would tell us more about what is going on. I would thing the PCMCIA card includes an encryption chip so it is not going to be easy to bypass it. I don't recall seeing that card for sale so probably only dealers can get it.
 
Turbo3 said:
...... knowing the battery serial number might tell you something about when/how the battery was manufactured if enough people report their data. Parts of the serial number might change based on chemistry or other interesting factors.

I would guess the "Battery Programming Card" generates a special code number required to marry the VCM and BMS ECU using the battery's serial number. A CAN trace of the process would tell us more about what is going on. I would thing the PCMCIA card includes an encryption chip so it is not going to be easy to bypass it. I don't recall seeing that card for sale so probably only dealers can get it.

Good point about the manufacture date. However if the serial is not on the every module (like on every module in Prius) you would not have a clue if someone had aready mixed old and new.... I created small program for scanning and checking quickly the dates in Toyota. Will have a loook at the Nissan serial structure - whether it follows the pattern .... As for the "card" - if I get one - we can experiment ....
 
Hello!
I got an used Leaf Battery and experimenting with CAN, reading the parameters from BMS via EV-CAN. As I don't have Leaf at the moment, I try to learn the battery BMS capabilities to use it otherwise. First connected using ELM327 with LeafSpy Lite and also with Peaktech PCAN expresscard. I get the data and answers to the queries, balancing works (red colored bars in LeafSpy Lite) if either IGN pins has 12V on it, but also have problems and questions.
First seems that LeafSpy doesn't read the value of current from messages on EV-CAN as the app shows 0 while charging or consuming, but there seems to be value of current, so figuring out at the moment how to get the readable number ( from message with id 1DB I guess).

But the most important problem for me at the moment is, that the value of SOC (From first message: Group 1 has 6 lines of data (precision SOC, Ah Capacity and perhaps battery State of Health %) doesn't change, while I charge the battery via power supply or consume the energy (big resistors). I see the battery that the voltages of cells rise and fall but SOC doesn't change. I can get new SOC value only when disconnecting and reconnecting 12V BAT pin at Leaf Battery communication socket which somehow forces the BMS to calculate or show the new value. As you have more experience here, I wanted to ask, if there is any CAN message to say BMS to recalculate the SOC value?

I was and will continue digging in the forum, but maybe someone can give me some hints to find the right information faster.
 
Turbo3 said:
... I don't recall seeing that card for sale so probably only dealers can get it.
When my pack was replaced under capacity warranty I talked with the service advisor about this.

The card is a programming tool for the Consult III.
Nissan will not sell it to anyone.
They will only provide it to dealers for use in doing capacity warranty replacements or installation of a new pack that the customer has purchased.
I'm still a bit unclear on whether it is specific to the new pack. My guess is that it is and the dealer must return it to Nissan after the pack is installed.

Nissan does have specific requirements that the old pack must be returned to them in a specific time frame.

If someone wants to monitor CAN while they are doing the software install they will have to get a dealer willing to work with them to do this.
My guess is it would be a gross violation of their contractal agreements with Nissan and they will not do it.

Most dealers won't even let you in the service bay due to insurance and safety liabilities.

The programming card does raise some interesting questions.
Say my LEAF with new pack gets in wreck and insurance totals it but pack is undamaged.
The smart thing to do would be to buy 2011 with badly degraded pack and swap in the new pack.
But the only way to do that will be to get Nissan to provide you a card.
Don't know if they will cooperate and do that or not :?:
 
taavi said:
Hello!
I got an used Leaf Battery and experimenting with CAN, reading the parameters from BMS via EV-CAN. As I don't have Leaf at the moment, I try to learn the battery BMS capabilities to use it otherwise. First connected using ELM327 with LeafSpy Lite and also with Peaktech PCAN expresscard. I get the data and answers to the queries, balancing works (red colored bars in LeafSpy Lite) if either IGN pins has 12V on it, but also have problems and questions.
First seems that LeafSpy doesn't read the value of current from messages on EV-CAN as the app shows 0 while charging or consuming, but there seems to be value of current, so figuring out at the moment how to get the readable number ( from message with id 1DB I guess).

But the most important problem for me at the moment is, that the value of SOC (From first message: Group 1 has 6 lines of data (precision SOC, Ah Capacity and perhaps battery State of Health %) doesn't change, while I charge the battery via power supply or consume the energy (big resistors). I see the battery that the voltages of cells rise and fall but SOC doesn't change. I can get new SOC value only when disconnecting and reconnecting 12V BAT pin at Leaf Battery communication socket which somehow forces the BMS to calculate or show the new value. As you have more experience here, I wanted to ask, if there is any CAN message to say BMS to recalculate the SOC value?

I was and will continue digging in the forum, but maybe someone can give me some hints to find the right information faster.
SOC changes during normal charging when the battery pack is in a Leaf. When I have a BMS on my bench the CAN is only active if I have +12 and IGN pins powered. Without the IGN getting 12 volts the CAN is not active for me. This is without a battery pack just the BMS powered on the bench.

In normal use LeafSpy gets data from an OBDII adapter plugged into the CAR CAN so no LeafSpy does not read the EV CAN as it is not normally connected to it. Only in the special case where the OBDII CAR CAN pins are wired to the EV CAN could LeafSpy get data from the EV CAN. Only when you are working with a standalone battery pack does this happen.
 
TimLee said:
Turbo3 said:
... I don't recall seeing that card for sale so probably only dealers can get it.
When my pack was replaced under capacity warranty I talked with the service advisor about this.

The card is a programming tool for the Consult III.
Nissan will not sell it to anyone.
They will only provide it to dealers for use in doing capacity warranty replacements or installation of a new pack that the customer has purchased.
I'm still a bit unclear on whether it is specific to the new pack. My guess is that it is and the dealer must return it to Nissan after the pack is installed.

Nissan does have specific requirements that the old pack must be returned to them in a specific time frame.

If someone wants to monitor CAN while they are doing the software install they will have to get a dealer willing to work with them to do this.
My guess is it would be a gross violation of their contractal agreements with Nissan and they will not do it.

Most dealers won't even let you in the service bay due to insurance and safety liabilities.

The programming card does raise some interesting questions.
Say my LEAF with new pack gets in wreck and insurance totals it but pack is undamaged.
The smart thing to do would be to buy 2011 with badly degraded pack and swap in the new pack.
But the only way to do that will be to get Nissan to provide you a card.
Don't know if they will cooperate and do that or not :?:
The programming card is a PCMCIA card and plugs into the laptop running the Consult 3+ software (so you need an old laptop that still has the PCMCIA slot). I assume it generates the encryption key necessary to "marry" the "new" BMS (battery pack) to the VCM in the Leaf.

Without that PCMCIA card and the Consult 3+ software you can not replace a battery pack.

However, if the battery pack is the same generation as the replacement pack you could open up the two packs and swap the BMS board. Not an easy task but it should work.
 
TimLee said:
The programming card does raise some interesting questions.
Say my LEAF with new pack gets in wreck and insurance totals it but pack is undamaged.
The smart thing to do would be to buy 2011 with badly degraded pack and swap in the new pack.
But the only way to do that will be to get Nissan to provide you a card.
Don't know if they will cooperate and do that or not :?:

I was in this exact situation, well almost, my 2011 Leaf with a new battery wasn't technically totally wrecked but my insurance totaled it anyway. At the time I was weighing different options, and approached my dealer with a question if they can swap the packs between 2 2011 Leafs, they assured me it was nothing special and they can easily do it for $1200. I didn't pursue this route after all and just kept my car so don't have a hard proof it is actually doable apart from the dealer's statement. The service advisor spoke with their Leaf technician and the service manager before telling me this, so I tend to believe this was more or less credible information, at the time anyway.
 
taavi said:
I was and will continue digging in the forum, but maybe someone can give me some hints to find the right information faster.
does this help?

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175674
 
Turbo3 said:
taavi said:
Hello!
I got an used Leaf Battery and experimenting with CAN, reading the parameters from BMS via EV-CAN. As I don't have Leaf at the moment, I try to learn the battery BMS capabilities to use it otherwise. First connected using ELM327 with LeafSpy Lite and also with Peaktech PCAN expresscard. I get the data and answers to the queries, balancing works (red colored bars in LeafSpy Lite) if either IGN pins has 12V on it, but also have problems and questions.
First seems that LeafSpy doesn't read the value of current from messages on EV-CAN as the app shows 0 while charging or consuming, but there seems to be value of current, so figuring out at the moment how to get the readable number ( from message with id 1DB I guess).

But the most important problem for me at the moment is, that the value of SOC (From first message: Group 1 has 6 lines of data (precision SOC, Ah Capacity and perhaps battery State of Health %) doesn't change, while I charge the battery via power supply or consume the energy (big resistors). I see the battery that the voltages of cells rise and fall but SOC doesn't change. I can get new SOC value only when disconnecting and reconnecting 12V BAT pin at Leaf Battery communication socket which somehow forces the BMS to calculate or show the new value. As you have more experience here, I wanted to ask, if there is any CAN message to say BMS to recalculate the SOC value?

I was and will continue digging in the forum, but maybe someone can give me some hints to find the right information faster.
SOC changes during normal charging when the battery pack is in a Leaf. When I have a BMS on my bench the CAN is only active if I have +12 and IGN pins powered. Without the IGN getting 12 volts the CAN is not active for me. This is without a battery pack just the BMS powered on the bench.

In normal use LeafSpy gets data from an OBDII adapter plugged into the CAR CAN so no LeafSpy does not read the EV CAN as it is not normally connected to it. Only in the special case where the OBDII CAR CAN pins are wired to the EV CAN could LeafSpy get data from the EV CAN. Only when you are working with a standalone battery pack does this happen.
Made an Arduino setup to monitor EV-CAN.
What I got is volts and amps of pack from id 0x1db.
A little issue is with measuring amps as the value is recalibrated to zero with the sensor value at this moment, while re-powering the BAT line to the BMS (to make the BMS to recalculate SOC value). So curring the 12V from BMS while charging or discharging will ruin the measurement of the (dis)charging current.
Second I got SOC value from 0x55b.
Also not changing, until the BAT is cut and reconnected.
Then GIDS value from 0x5bc.
Same problem as with SOC.
Seems that in car the VCM module which communicates with BMS somehow sends a recalculation command or activation command to the BMS module on startup of the system. As I don't have a car I can't make a log and then analyse to find it, even not sure I am able to find something. Anyone has some EV-CAN log?
I also found out that the power sockets on battery container have additional small holes. To get feedback about cables connected or not?
So still stuck to get SOC or GIDS value to recalculated...

At a link posted by KevinSharpe it seems the values are read on startup, but no contonuous measurement of SOC.
 
Hello everyone. Great job the one compiled here.
I have BMS leaf connected in working table. I've connected diodes in series to simulate a real battery. I have been able to establish connection with the BMS with leafspy and monitor the voltage state of each zener diode. The bms does not start equalization. I am thinking that there should be some message that activates the equalization, maybe put in evcan from VCM. Someone can post a moment log before the start of equalization.
I have also read that the equalization is continuous in another post.
Thank you
 
Hi everyone,
I think this is the best topic to ask.
I found out that some values can be requested from a module only after setting it into diagnostic mode by sending a command 02 10 C0.

However, I can't find any details about this mode.
Can you tell me, does it have any expiration time? If so - is there a command to keep it active or just send another one 02 10 C0?
Do I need to exit diagnostic mode after I finished all requests?

Thanks.
 
Back
Top