Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

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Hello!

For several months as I work on the project "additional battery in parallel with the main in my nissan leaf y2012.
Planned additional battery 22p96s 18650 -15-20kwh - aprox 120kg.

I read the forum and Nissan documentation and examines the contributions of members to the Forum (turbo3, gerygid ... - my respect). Recently, however, I found on youtube a similar project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooEgQ3ZxnM

It is interesting that it has already taken the test and according to the internal resistance (use 2p96s) of the load got about 50A main battery; 3,6A of extra batteries.

Watch the video.
aprox: main 60Ah, extra 5Ah... 60:5 ==50:3.6 divided current according impendanceand capacity. Leaf not detect small additional current, the question is what is happend in case additional 50Ah??

However, it is still a long way, especially when taking into account the security and toughness integration.
As some one wrote on the forum: not be easy do it, but I find technical and skilful a challenge for Leisure...

Atkam


my first post
 
I've done it successfully. I added 12kwh worth of batteries in the "trunk" area of a 2012 Leaf. It has been driven around for months thereafter. I can't say that there are never any problems but they're rare and clear with a power cycle. The car used to get perhaps 55 miles per charge but now I can just barely squeeze out 85 miles if I really run it dead. However, my integration was a bit more involved than the average hobbyist project. The Leaf BMS is smart enough to do many checks before it'll enable anything and that makes it tough.

1. I'm connected in line with the big power wires coming out of the main pack.
2. I have my own contactor to trigger my pack in
3. I've tapped the power wires going to the main pack's contactors so I know when they're closed
4. I'm reading CANbus from both the Leaf BMS and a BMS on the add-on 12kw pack
5. You have to close your contactor only once the main system has precharged and closed for driving.
6. You must open your contactor immediately if the main pack opens
7. You can't close until the voltages measured on both sides are almost the same. Sometimes this delays linking the packs until driving for a while or charging for a while.

Basically, it is computer controlled and uses a contactor. If you don't cooperate that way then the BMS will scream at you and you go nowhere. I wouldn't say that such a project is super easy but I can vouch for it being possible. You absolutely cannot have voltage from your pack getting to the motor controller or other HV components until the Leaf is ready. Otherwise, the car will slap you and it'll be hard to clear the errors. My system is fully automatic now but it took a lot of work and experimentation to get there.
 
TimLee said:
collink said:
I've done it successfully. I added 12kwh worth of batteries in the "trunk" area of a 2012 Leaf. ...
Wow :shock: :eek: :D :!:

Separate charger for the 12 kWh add on pack?

No, I integrated the add-on pack such that the car ends up using it both for charge and discharge without knowing the extra pack is there... most of the time. Sometimes it generates an isolation fault or something. But, the error it generates clears with a power cycle so when it happens we just turn off the car for a bit and turn it back on. I'd have no patience for needing to charge the add-on pack separately. The fact that I'm spoofing out the car unfortunately means that it also doesn't really properly take the add-on pack into consideration when doing distance calculations. It somewhat does as it figures out that the car isn't drawing the main pack down as fast as it thought it would but the distance calculations get really funky - it'll drop 5 miles in range in 2 miles then stay steady for 5 miles, then drop 1 mile for each mile, then drop a bunch, then level out again. It's really confused. I thought about spoofing signals to the gauges but that seems like too much work for little benefit. I'm just happy to be able to reliably drive 75 to 80 miles in a 2012 Leaf. ;)
 
collink said:
I've done it successfully. I added 12kwh worth of batteries in the "trunk" area of a 2012 Leaf.
This is really cool - do you have any pics or documentation of your setup?
 
collink said:
... No, I integrated the add-on pack such that the car ends up using it both for charge and discharge without knowing the extra pack is there... most of the time. ...
I somehow thought charging might cause issues.
But in both cases the two packs are in parallel.
And charging stops based on voltage.
So if one pack is more depleted current will flow into the weaker pack.

And in discharge Turtle is based on voltage too.
But pack disconnect always appears to occur at 4 Gids.
Is there any risk of over discharging the 12 kWh pack if it is weaker?
Or does its BMS independently protect and disconnect it?
 
drees said:
collink said:
I've done it successfully. I added 12kwh worth of batteries in the "trunk" area of a 2012 Leaf.
This is really cool - do you have any pics or documentation of your setup?

I'm really interested in knowing what chemistry have you used. All 18650 i know don't "fit" the leaf pack very well in terms of SOC vs voltage...
 
collink said:
I've done it successfully. I added 12kwh worth of batteries in the "trunk" area of a 2012 Leaf. It has been driven around for months thereafter. I can't say that there are never any problems but they're rare and clear with a power cycle. The car used to get perhaps 55 miles per charge but now I can just barely squeeze out 85 miles if I really run it dead. However, my integration was a bit more involved than the average hobbyist project. The Leaf BMS is smart enough to do many checks before it'll enable anything and that makes it tough.

1. I'm connected in line with the big power wires coming out of the main pack.
2. I have my own contactor to trigger my pack in
3. I've tapped the power wires going to the main pack's contactors so I know when they're closed
4. I'm reading CANbus from both the Leaf BMS and a BMS on the add-on 12kw pack
5. You have to close your contactor only once the main system has precharged and closed for driving.
6. You must open your contactor immediately if the main pack opens
7. You can't close until the voltages measured on both sides are almost the same. Sometimes this delays linking the packs until driving for a while or charging for a while.

Basically, it is computer controlled and uses a contactor. If you don't cooperate that way then the BMS will scream at you and you go nowhere. I wouldn't say that such a project is super easy but I can vouch for it being possible. You absolutely cannot have voltage from your pack getting to the motor controller or other HV components until the Leaf is ready. Otherwise, the car will slap you and it'll be hard to clear the errors. My system is fully automatic now but it took a lot of work and experimentation to get there.

I want to do this to my 2012 leaf as well. Could you provide a parts list of what you used?
You programmed your own interface to the CANbus? I tried writing an Android app to read the CAN bus, but I wasn't able to get the protocol right, only a bunch of OK messages.

I would love to learn from the resources you used, I've tried looking for documentation but can't find much.

This technology is absolutely amazing.
 
collink said:
I've done it successfully. I added 12kwh worth of batteries in the "trunk" area of a 2012 Leaf. It has been driven around for months thereafter. I can't say that there are never any problems but they're rare and clear with a power cycle. The car used to get perhaps 55 miles per charge but now I can just barely squeeze out 85 miles if I really run it dead. However, my integration was a bit more involved than the average hobbyist project. The Leaf BMS is smart enough to do many checks before it'll enable anything and that makes it tough.

1. I'm connected in line with the big power wires coming out of the main pack.
2. I have my own contactor to trigger my pack in
3. I've tapped the power wires going to the main pack's contactors so I know when they're closed
4. I'm reading CANbus from both the Leaf BMS and a BMS on the add-on 12kw pack
5. You have to close your contactor only once the main system has precharged and closed for driving.
6. You must open your contactor immediately if the main pack opens
7. You can't close until the voltages measured on both sides are almost the same. Sometimes this delays linking the packs until driving for a while or charging for a while.

Basically, it is computer controlled and uses a contactor. If you don't cooperate that way then the BMS will scream at you and you go nowhere. I wouldn't say that such a project is super easy but I can vouch for it being possible. You absolutely cannot have voltage from your pack getting to the motor controller or other HV components until the Leaf is ready. Otherwise, the car will slap you and it'll be hard to clear the errors. My system is fully automatic now but it took a lot of work and experimentation to get there.



Hi

Thank you very much "Collink" for very important basic input because confirm my principle how to plan to do it.
Is observing status of main pack contractor + voltage primary and secondary battery pack enough for connect battery together or you on your case check additional conditions (form CAN bus....) ?

Which BMS are you use?

Is second battery requires the BMS configured in way that never reaches more than 4,1V per cell with strong balance current.

best regards
ATKAM
 
Finally I finish with full integration my additional battery parallel with main battery. I expect additional 100-150 km. Testing is in progress. Please find below some sample picture.
thank you: turbo3, gerygid, leaf xpack, jehugarcia, Njah kavin, HBPowerwall, Damien Maguire, Wolf Tronix, mikeatyouttube and many others which gave me useful information for this hobby project.

br
ATKAM

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKOh50vx8dJYnFDZ1ZtdDdjSFU/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKOh50vx8dJQ09XMjV1SFNjeWM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKOh50vx8dJMHR5YURKdHd4aUU/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKOh50vx8dJWlhoaXJGQlJjVXM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKOh50vx8dJYzFJaVBSb2w3OWs/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKOh50vx8dJNHVudTJRY2xNcWs/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxKOh50vx8dJc3J0REpiTGpPQ1E/view?usp=sharing
 
Forgive my ignorance here: Does this additional battery charge the traction battery or does it directly power the motor?
 
Atkam said:
Finally I finish with full integration my additional battery parallel with main battery. I expect additional 100-150 km. Testing is in progress. Please find below some sample picture.
thank you: turbo3, gerygid, leaf xpack, jehugarcia, Njah kavin, HBPowerwall, Damien Maguire, Wolf Tronix, mikeatyouttube and many others which gave me useful information for this hobby project.

Atkam;
Based on your work, do you have any ideas/suggestions on this hobby project:
- Goal is to use the Leaf's HV battery to power a ~400 VDC 8kw UPS for emergency power (240 VAC single phase).
- The UPS will supply split phase power to a sub-panel using a center tapped iso transformer.
- HV power wiring to be connected at the PTC heater (gutted) and routed to a protected quick connect/disconnect (Andersons) for convenience of connecting to the UPS. This circuit (2012 Leaf), is fused at 30 amps/400 VDC - should be OK from a protection aspect?
- The Leaf will have to be left in "start" mode, but I'd like to remove (defuse) as many "parasitic" loads possible.
- Charging to be conventional AC Level II (240 VAC) for now (I have an arduino/solar system set up to do this).
- I do want to be able to drive the Leaf out of "solar" area and use it with very little effort (basically disconnect the Andersons).

My worry is "bricking" the Leaf (at a rather rural area) as a result of connecting/disconnecting/operating in this "emergency" power supply mode. Do you have any comments/suggestions?

Great project work - such learning experiences are amazing!
 
Atkam said:
Finally I finish with full integration my additional battery parallel with main battery. I expect additional 100-150 km. Testing is in progress. Please find below some sample picture.
thank you: turbo3, gerygid, leaf xpack, jehugarcia, Njah kavin, HBPowerwall, Damien Maguire, Wolf Tronix, mikeatyouttube and many others which gave me useful information for this hobby project.

ATKAM,

Can you share a more about this mod?
A whole year has passed but you didn't share anything with us :)
thanks!
 
Some additional information of my integration:
1. I integrate secondary battery 22p96s, 6 box - each box 16 block with 22p 18650 cells.
2. I'm connected in line with the big power wires coming out of the main pack.
3. I have 3 tyco contactors to connect primary and secondary pack together
4. I've tapped the power wires going to the main pack's contactors so I know when they're closed
5. I use 1 x arduino uno and one arduino mega for controlling 3 tyco contactrs
6. I have a several controlling mechanism delta V, delta T, state of contactor, ..
7. Second battery is charging same time as primary battery, CHADEMO charging not tested yes (probbaly I need some ressitor serial to protect to high current at first coiple of charging with CHADEMO...
I need find some time for put all schematic and diagram together because I work without plans. I have only hands-free sketches of plans and it takes a lot of time to prepare these plans in a decent format.

br
Ales

on link below yo can check some pic about my hobby project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z04PcmVkF34&t=1s
 
Marktm said:
Atkam said:
Finally I finish with full integration my additional battery parallel with main battery. I expect additional 100-150 km. Testing is in progress. Please find below some sample picture.
thank you: turbo3, gerygid, leaf xpack, jehugarcia, Njah kavin, HBPowerwall, Damien Maguire, Wolf Tronix, mikeatyouttube and many others which gave me useful information for this hobby project.

Atkam;
Based on your work, do you have any ideas/suggestions on this hobby project:
- Goal is to use the Leaf's HV battery to power a ~400 VDC 8kw UPS for emergency power (240 VAC single phase).
- The UPS will supply split phase power to a sub-panel using a center tapped iso transformer.
- HV power wiring to be connected at the PTC heater (gutted) and routed to a protected quick connect/disconnect (Andersons) for convenience of connecting to the UPS. This circuit (2012 Leaf), is fused at 30 amps/400 VDC - should be OK from a protection aspect?
- The Leaf will have to be left in "start" mode, but I'd like to remove (defuse) as many "parasitic" loads possible.
- Charging to be conventional AC Level II (240 VAC) for now (I have an arduino/solar system set up to do this).
- I do want to be able to drive the Leaf out of "solar" area and use it with very little effort (basically disconnect the Andersons).

My worry is "bricking" the Leaf (at a rather rural area) as a result of connecting/disconnecting/operating in this "emergency" power supply mode. Do you have any comments/suggestions?

Great project work - such learning experiences are amazing!

ATKAM
Interesting plan. My question how to get a DC/AC for 400V DC to 240VAC converter. I already looking and not find it. I thing is very interssting project because cover emergency power for home.. I have a similar plan to V2H. Free of charge car, drive to home and power supply home,... :)
 
Atkam said:
Interesting plan. My question how to get a DC/AC for 400V DC to 240VAC converter. I already looking and not find it. I thing is very interssting project because cover emergency power for home.. I have a similar plan to V2H. Free of charge car, drive to home and power supply home,... :)

I own a SRT10K UPS inverter that operates at ~400 VDC. The issue for me is (admittedly) not enough confidence that I will not "brick" my Leaf by wiring it to the PTC heater circuit (that has a 30 amp fused circuit) and "firing up" the Leaf. To use the SRT10K for household split phase circuits, I have a 5K watt center tapped iso-transformer. I bought the Leaf to do that, then realized I would likely get a new battery and enjoyed driving it so much, I've put off the "experiment". I have done something similar with a Prius traction battery and a SURT6000 UPS (at ~ 200 VDC) and it has worked very well as an emergency generator.

If I find a cheap/used PTC heater for a 2011/12 Leaf, I'll actually do it.
 
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