Official BMW i3 thread

Looks like the capacity estimates in the previous post were pretty close:

The battery will have 96 cells with 94 Ah and 3,75 V each.

96 x 3,75 V x 94 Ah = 33,84 kWh

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BMW boosts battery capacity of MY2017 i3 to 33 kWh with higher energy density Li-ion cells; up to 114 miles combined cycle range

2 May 2016

BMW will offer a new model range of its i3 compact electric car, and from the 2017 model year will be offering a new version with more than 50% increased battery capacity.

The 2017 BMW i3 (94 Ah) has a capacity of 33 kilowatt hours (kWh) due to the use of higher energy density lithium-ion cells; the dimensions of the pack remain unchanged while still offering a significant range increase. The new BMW i3, in varying weather conditions and with the air conditioning or heating turned on, has a range of up to 114 miles (183 km) combined (hwy/city) cycle, as shown by independent BMW testing; EPA figures are still pending. The EPA range rating for the MY 2016 i3 is 81 miles (130 km)...

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http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/05/20160502-i3.html

I still think The i3 BEVx version is a poor compromise, but I may be interested in the BEV.

With ~30 kWh available, the BEV should be able to make one of my regular trips without recharging, and with a few kWh to spare.

I'd expect the i3 to have significatly greater efficiency than My LEAF, which requires at least ~25 kWh (161/6.4 = ~25.2 kWh) to cover my favorite Lassen Peak loop:

Lassen Peak trip

...With ~12 kwh of potential energy (depending on vehicle load) from the Peak lot to the Valley floor...

...on all three ~161 mile loop trips this year, my LEAF reported 7.0 or 7.1 odometer miles/nominal kWh (what is shown in the nav screen m/kWh display).

No, My LEAF did not really get 7.0 or 7.1 m/kWh on each of these trips, or even the 6.7 or 6.8 shown on the dash M/kWh display, caused by it's 2.5% underreport error from odometer miles.

But I estimate that my LEAF did get a very respectable ~6.3 to 6.4 actual m/kWh, once correcting for both the underreport in my odometer, ~0.5%, and the underreport in my LEAF's kWh use, ~10.5%...

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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5022&hilit=lassen&start=10

Looks like our choices for replacing current Leaf this year would be
- Multiple 110 mile EVs (Leaf, Ioniq, i3)
- 200 mile Bolt at the end of the year (may be Q1 next year)

I've resigned myself to wait till Bolt comes out.

And I don't know what the Leaf 2 timelines are any more. Will Leaf 2 come around the time Bolt comes or Model 3 ?

Will Leaf 2 come around the time Bolt comes or Model 3 ?

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Yes, definitely! Well, probably, anyway. ;-)

evnow said:

Looks like our choices for replacing current Leaf this year would be
- Multiple 110 mile EVs (Leaf, Ioniq, i3)
- 200 mile Bolt at the end of the year (may be Q1 next year)...

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With ~10%-15% greater battery capacity and also greater efficiency, the actual range of the i3 BEV will likely be considerably longer than that of the Ioniq or LEAF, especially at lower speeds or in mountain driving.

And the i3 BEVx version will not only have significantly longer total range between fueling stops than the Bolt, but also the capability to get another ~100+ miles of range in ~5 minutes, for ~$5, at any gas station.

I expect both versions of the 2017 i3 will find a market.

edatoakrun said:

evnow said:

Looks like our choices for replacing current Leaf this year would be
- Multiple 110 mile EVs (Leaf, Ioniq, i3)
- 200 mile Bolt at the end of the year (may be Q1 next year)...

Click to expand...

With ~10%-15% greater battery capacity and also greater efficiency, the actual range of the i3 BEV will likely be considerably longer than that of the Ioniq or LEAF, especially at lower speeds or in mountain driving.

And the i3 BEVx version will not only have significantly longer total range between fueling stops than the Bolt, but also the capability to get another ~100+ miles of range in ~5 minutes, for ~$5, at any gas station.

I expect both versions of the 2017 i3 will find a market.

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It would be even better if they increased the tankage of the REx to provide 2 hours of freeway driving, to 4-4.5 gallons, along with uncrippling hold mode.

="GRA"

="edatoakrun"... the i3 BEVx version will not only have significantly longer total range between fueling stops than the Bolt, but also the capability to get another ~100+ miles of range in ~5 minutes, for ~$5, at any gas station...

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It would be even better if they increased the tankage of the REx to provide 2 hours of freeway driving, to 4-4.5 gallons, along with uncrippling hold mode.

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=CARB

NO REBATE FOR YOU!

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edatoakrun said:

="GRA"

="edatoakrun"... the i3 BEVx version will not only have significantly longer total range between fueling stops than the Bolt, but also the capability to get another ~100+ miles of range in ~5 minutes, for ~$5, at any gas station...

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It would be even better if they increased the tankage of the REx to provide 2 hours of freeway driving, to 4-4.5 gallons, along with uncrippling hold mode.

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=CARB

NO REBATE FOR YOU!

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I think you mean "No BEVx credits for You (BMW)!" Customers would still get the PHEV rebate, along with a car that has more utility and flexibility.

GRA said:

...I think you mean "No BEVx credits for You (BMW)!" Customers would still get the PHEV rebate...

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Which is $1,000 less than the BEV/BEVx rebate.

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligible-vehicles

edatoakrun said:

GRA said:

...I think you mean "No BEVx credits for You (BMW)!" Customers would still get the PHEV rebate...

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Which is $1,000 less than the BEV/BEVx rebate.

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligible-vehicles

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And worth every penny.

It is not about rebates - it is about BMW trying to sell hybrids to get gold zev credits.

GRA said:

edatoakrun said:

evnow said:

Looks like our choices for replacing current Leaf this year would be
- Multiple 110 mile EVs (Leaf, Ioniq, i3)
- 200 mile Bolt at the end of the year (may be Q1 next year)...

Click to expand...

With ~10%-15% greater battery capacity and also greater efficiency, the actual range of the i3 BEV will likely be considerably longer than that of the Ioniq or LEAF, especially at lower speeds or in mountain driving.

And the i3 BEVx version will not only have significantly longer total range between fueling stops than the Bolt, but also the capability to get another ~100+ miles of range in ~5 minutes, for ~$5, at any gas station.

I expect both versions of the 2017 i3 will find a market.

Click to expand...

It would be even better if they increased the tankage of the REx to provide 2 hours of freeway driving, to 4-4.5 gallons, along with uncrippling hold mode.

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I would guess that the ioniq may be better highway car than the i3 due to the aero and Hyundai(Kia)'s history of reporting usable vs actual capacity. If so the ioniq is 30.5-31 kWh to the i3s 33.

If you're just going to go with low speed city driving then the advantage prob. goes to the i3. Come winter time when it's dense air that takes range away the ioniq has the advantage but if it's slow speeds and prolonged heater use the larger battery has the advantage in the i3. Consider the price difference that we can assume without MSRPs even out yet and I think it would be worth it to try and push the ioniq. Even after saying that I think the BEVx if it comes out at 100 miles will be better still. I'd still rather have worry free driving and use a REX for what it really is intended for. I'd even be happy if they gave a single cylinder REX with a 50mph top speed for less money. At least then no one would be complaining that it doesn't perform like the volt.

I really liked the i3 when I test drove it. I initially didn't like the styling, but that has grown on me.

At 114 mile range, that would be doable for my present commute, but leaves little room for degradation. So the e-Golf with 124 mile range will likely be the winner for pure BEV. However, the i3 with the range extender would be a definite contender.

The market is starting to get exciting.

Apparent confirmation of the ~$8,000 cost (with trade-in)to upgrade i3 battery pack, but only for Europe:

BMW i3: battery replacement to 94Ah package is 7,000 euros

...The design of the i3 also allows retrofitting new battery technologies. While customers in the U.S. won’t have this option for now, BMW gives i3 owners in Europe the opportunity of retrofitting their purely electric for a price of 7,000 euros....

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http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/07/14/bmw-i3-battery-replacement-94ah-package-7000-euros/

A post by Tom Moloughney last May discussed the question:

Does the BMW i3 battery upgrade make sense?
...So why doesn’t battery retrofit make sense now?

While this sounds great, the truth is it’s still a little premature to get excited about the retrofit program. The i3 is only about two years old, and even the earliest i3s delivered in Europe aren’t even close to the point where they need a battery replacement yet...

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http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/05/12/bmw-i3-battery-upgrade-make-sense/

Of course, the upgrade question is not so premature for owners of much older LEAFs, like myself.

My 2011 LEAF, after ~46k miles and well into its sixth year of use, has lost ~16% of it's available capacity at delivery (the over-estimate of capacity loss reported by the LBC is now approaching 30%!) and so I estimate my pack now probably only has ~19.5 kWh total capacity remaining.

So, upgrading to a replacement ~30 kWh pack, which would give me a greater than 50% increase in capacity and range than I have today, will be a proposition of interest to me, when and if Nissan announces its USA LEAF pack upgrade program.

Via IEVS, Tom Moloughney's comparison test and review of the 2017 i3 REx versus his 2014:

2017 BMW i3 REx Range Put To The Test Against 2014 i3 REx

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http://insideevs.com/2017-bmw-i3-rex-range-put-to-the-test-against-2014-i3-rex/

Seems BMW is under-promising and over-delivering on battery capacity and range, and has made several other improvements to the charging profile, REx and sound insulation as well. Good upgrades, but for those out west who need to climb mountains after a long flat approach, coding to get access to 'Hold' mode is still more valuable (cheaper, too).

Appears that it will go even farther ... latest news from the Paris auto show from BMW; they don't specify so I would imagine its somewhat less as this is most-likely based on the Euro Cycle which is always higher than the US EPA standard

The 94-Ah (ampere-hours) i3 gets extra range with denser lithium-ion cells for a capacity of 33 kWh. This gives it a range, BMW says, of 186 miles on a single charge, as opposed to 118 miles in the last car. The company is also offering a new, more powerful wallbox for charging at home.

http://autoweek.com/article/paris-m...range-186-miles-paris-auto-show#ixzz4Lfxwiegy

redLEAF said:

Appears that it will go even farther ... latest news from the Paris auto show from BMW; they don't specify so I would imagine its somewhat less as this is most-likely based on the Euro Cycle which is always higher than the US EPA standard

The 94-Ah (ampere-hours) i3 gets extra range with denser lithium-ion cells for a capacity of 33 kWh. This gives it a range, BMW says, of 186 miles on a single charge, as opposed to 118 miles in the last car. The company is also offering a new, more powerful wallbox for charging at home.

http://autoweek.com/article/paris-m...range-186-miles-paris-auto-show#ixzz4Lfxwiegy

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Kilometers?

lorenfb said:

redLEAF said:

Appears that it will go even farther ... latest news from the Paris auto show from BMW; they don't specify so I would imagine its somewhat less as this is most-likely based on the Euro Cycle which is always higher than the US EPA standard

The 94-Ah (ampere-hours) i3 gets extra range with denser lithium-ion cells for a capacity of 33 kWh. This gives it a range, BMW says, of 186 miles on a single charge, as opposed to 118 miles in the last car. The company is also offering a new, more powerful wallbox for charging at home.

http://autoweek.com/article/paris-m...range-186-miles-paris-auto-show#ixzz4Lfxwiegy

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Kilometers?

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No, NEDC miles. 186 miles is 300 km. As we know, the EPA AER is 114 miles for the 33kW i3, and 97 miles for the 33kW i3 REx. As a general rule, multiplying NEDC by 2/3rds will get you in the ballpark of the EPA range.

GRA said:

lorenfb said:

redLEAF said:

Appears that it will go even farther ... latest news from the Paris auto show from BMW; they don't specify so I would imagine its somewhat less as this is most-likely based on the Euro Cycle which is always higher than the US EPA standard

The 94-Ah (ampere-hours) i3 gets extra range with denser lithium-ion cells for a capacity of 33 kWh. This gives it a range, BMW says, of 186 miles on a single charge, as opposed to 118 miles in the last car. The company is also offering a new, more powerful wallbox for charging at home.

http://autoweek.com/article/paris-m...range-186-miles-paris-auto-show#ixzz4Lfxwiegy

Click to expand...

Kilometers?

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No, NEDC miles. 186 miles is 300 km. As we know, the EPA AER is 114 miles for the 33kW i3, and 94 miles for the 33kW i3 REx. As a general rule, multiplying NEDC by 2/3rds will get you in the ballpark of the EPA range.

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.

Actually, 186 km (my "Kilometers?" post) is about 116 miles which is the new battery range.

What a joke - 186 miles! It's the i3 hybrid, i.e. the i3 Rex. So they basically matched the latest Leaf's battery and
gave the MC engine a bigger gas tank, a really BIG yawn. It needs to be compared to a Volt which is also
a hybrid with greater range than a typical BEV, i.e. notwithstanding a Tesla. So a hybrid has a greater
range than a typical BEV, nothing new!

Who really cares what the NEDC or the EPA rating is, most on the forum know by now what a typical
BEV range is based on the battery's Ahr rating. Most EV consumers now days can differentiate between
a hybrid, e.g. a i3 Rex, and a true BEV. By the way, who really likes driving with about 30 HP, especially
in mountain terrain, when the battery range is exhausted? Given that, is the 186 mile combined range
really of much value to most consumers? If so, then they'll buy a Volt.

Try again BMW, i.e. your "wordsmith effort" can't make you competitive to the Bolt's range!

BMW will rework the front and rear of the i3 and equip the car with a new battery to increase its range sometime in 2017. The range increase will be somewhere less than 50%.

In other words, it will be less range than the Bolt EV or the Model 3. And base model will be priced higher.

BMW is justifying less range by claiming people don't buy based on range or that range is not important. BMW's development board Klaus Fröhlich told the "World on Sunday" that he did not consider car manufacturers to be competing based on who has the greatest range.

When your product has fails by that metric and is higher priced, I can see why you'd try to make that argument.

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/artic...frischung.html (use Chrome's translation tool for English)

I was sitting at a light and saw an i3 the other day and had the same thought. If you had an i3 and a Tesla S60 Tesla Model 3 and put them in a room and brought people in to pick which one they liked and only gave the price and let them look at the cars without any reference to electric. Just based on comfort and convenience as well as style, the i3 will have a hard time getting a vote.

Its like putting a Mini Cooper Clubman and a BMW 525 in the same room and let people pick, except that I'd argue that the Mini is not that bad looking compared to the i3.

The i3 is just over priced for an ugly economy car with a few gadgets on the interior that are not that well executed. Just my opinion, but it also seems to match most of the people I've spoken with about the car.

The mini cooper conversions and the active e cars were much better. They somehow got lost trying to create something unique and it does not seem to have caught on with many people.