Will dealers be allowed to gouge us?

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Bicster said:
I think it will be much like the EV-11 test drive events, where you get to do a couple of laps on a closed course in a parking lot, and get to fondle the car a bit. It would only require a couple of LEAFs. I doubt we'll be getting test drives on public roads.

Disagree -- in the late fall before the spring arrival of the new smart fortwo's, MBZ/smart had a driving event that allowed each person to drive on real roads (along with a smart rep of course) to experience a combination of local and highway. These were close to production cars (actually I think they came from Canada) , not multi-million dollar prototypes so if Nissan has these available, I would think they would extend the driving experience accordingly --- a little drive around a parking lot may not be enough to belly-up for a $32K+ car (before tax rebates) for most people and it would be a mistake to think so. If on the other hand they only still have a handful of pre-production cars than I would agree --- hey, Nissan didn't even bring the LEAF to the Chicago Auto Show this year so perhaps you'll be right after all but I hope not.

As another aside, the smart rollout with Penske did it right with NASCAR style semi-trailers decorated with smart cars on their sides so the traveling caravan was quickly identified when they traveled from city to city. They also had very knowledgeable marketing/sales people, a cutaway chassis, etc. on hand and were genuinely excited to show the cars --- as again Nissan didn't show up out my way hopefully they'll extend the same effort when the time comes.
 
I'd certainly prefer to test drive on public roads, but for me it won't be a requirement, as long as the automotive press is allowed to.

My wife, on the other hand... I'm still working on getting her to sign off on this. :D
 
Yes, my wife is comfortable in her current car, and not really wanting to spend a LOT of money for a somewhat LIMITED replacement, that would require her to learn a new car (her to CHANGE).

So, at this point, I am unsure that even a test ride would make her comfortable, even if the $$ are there, because it (any new car) would be a (shudder) CHANGE for her, which she would likely FEEL is unnecessary (for her).

Even if we cannot get an EV now, I still want to help make the EV-movement a total success.
 
daniel said:
garygid said:
In (or near) most of the "first" areas, we should have a chance to see, sit in, and even drive a LEAF before August.
Has Nissan said this?

IIRC, Nissan has said they will get cars so that everyone can test drive before ordering. May be in one of Perry's interview videos ?
 
The guys at the Nissan booth following the Tour of California indicated that we would be able to test drive the cars in the fall. They did not have any specific dates, but that there would be cars going out to many of the dealerships to have as test cars.

My guess is that this will happen in late September or October, just after Lance gets his car. This will likely be from the fleet of pre-production cars that they use for testing. Once the testing is complete they will put them out for the dealerships to use a test drive cars, and they just move them around from dealership to dealership, perhaps one week at each one, if they have enough cars.
 
I went on the Smart Roadshow (or whatever it was called) in June 2007. We only got to take the car around the block, and the girl I was driving with kept her hand on the handbrake the entire time, like I was some stupid high school kid who couldn't be trusted. :roll: It was still enough time to figure out that, while it was a decent little car, the transmission was complete shite.
 
mwalsh said:
I went on the Smart Roadshow (or whatever it was called) in June 2007. We only got to take the car around the block, and the girl I was driving with kept her hand on the handbrake the entire time, like I was some stupid high school kid who couldn't be trusted. :roll: It was still enough time to figure out that, while it was a decent little car, the transmission was complete shite.

Maybe they learned something from that one ... Chicago was Sept '07 and was nothing like that, smart later provided a software update for the trans that improved the shifts; I still don't like its ride over bumpy roads and long trips but the wife and son still enjoy it and I will drive it to work sometimes. Wife's commute is a short one on smooth roads so the shifter and ride have never been an issue. Smart also had a much more limited event during late spring/ early summer downtown in '07 and that was really a slow crawl (don't remember anyone ready to pull the hand brake though!).
 
Gas 2.0's take on why we won't get gouged:

http://gas2.org/2010/05/26/nissan-leaf-early-adopters-wont-get-gouged-by-the-dealer-heres-why/

"..........................According to Perry, there are major differences between a LEAF sale and a conventional car sale that should put to rest the question of price gouging. “The difference in the distribution process is, it’s not an allocation to the dealer, it’s a customer order, so [the customers] have the control,” said Perry on the sidelines of the groundbreaking event. As he explains it, if you go to any particular dealer and say ‘I have an order, would you like to deliver my lease? (me: I'm sure this is supposed to say Leaf)’ and they come back with a price $5,000 higher than list, you can simply take your order and go to another dealer. In this system, the people with multiple Nissan dealerships in their area will be at an advantage, but even the folks with only 2 or 3 within 60 miles will have excellent bargaining power.

This system is exactly what I had suspected and mused about in some comments sections on older posts. It’s an elegant way to solve the problem from the manufacturer end. There will still likely be dealers that try and price gouge, but all you’ve got to do as a customer is simply walk away from that dealer and take your order elsewhere. Plus, there’s always the onus of bad press to discourage dealers in the first place."
 
mwalsh said:
This system is exactly what I had suspected and mused about in some comments sections on older posts. It’s an elegant way to solve the problem from the manufacturer end. There will still likely be dealers that try and price gouge, but all you’ve got to do as a customer is simply walk away from that dealer and take your order elsewhere. Plus, there’s always the onus of bad press to discourage dealers in the first place."

Wow! This is fantastic news -- I was certain it was going to go the other route as "dealer allocation". Go, Nissan!
 
We've got 20 Nissan dealers in metro Chicago, high likelihood that at least 1 or more will sell for MSRP, I'm sure other metro areas with multiple dealers will benefit from this strategy as well --
 
evnow said:
daniel said:
garygid said:
In (or near) most of the "first" areas, we should have a chance to see, sit in, and even drive a LEAF before August.
Has Nissan said this?

IIRC, Nissan has said they will get cars so that everyone can test drive before ordering. May be in one of Perry's interview videos ?
That's great news, though I'd probably buy one anyway. For me, a guaranteed delivery date is more important than a test drive.

palmermd said:
The guys at the Nissan booth following the Tour of California indicated that we would be able to test drive the cars in the fall. They did not have any specific dates, but that there would be cars going out to many of the dealerships to have as test cars.

My guess is that this will happen in late September or October...
That still puts it after we have to place a firm order if we have any hopes of getting a car early. Unless the sale contract has a safe back-out clause contingent on the test drive. They could probably safely offer that, considering the low volume and high demand in the early roll-out phase. But it will surprise me if they do.
 
One could simply insist upon a test-drive back-out, full refund clause, right?

So, now we have the new question - What dealers will accept adding the full-refund bail-out clause?
 
garygid said:
One could simply insist upon a test-drive back-out, full refund clause, right?

So, now we have the new question - What dealers will accept adding the full-refund bail-out clause?


According to the guys at the Nissan booth at the Tour of California, all deposits taken prior to signing a contract are fully refundable for any reason at any time. $99 is for the pre-reservation, they'll likely want more money for the full deposit with the details of what you want to order in the August reservation. If you test drive the car in October and you don't like it then you can just ask for all deposits to be returned.
 
garygid said:
One could simply insist upon a test-drive back-out, full refund clause, right?

So, now we have the new question - What dealers will accept adding the full-refund bail-out clause?

Probably most of them, because if the customer declines their order the dealer gets to sell the car to anyone, and tack on market adjustment fees. "Get the only Leaf in town that isn't reserved!"
 
Bicster said:
Probably most of them, because if the customer declines their order the dealer gets to sell the car to anyone, and tack on market adjustment fees. "Get the only Leaf in town that isn't reserved!"

Not exactly. According to yesterdays news, the car is the customers car and not the dealers. The car is assigned to a customer based on the reservation process and the customer chooses where to have his/her car delivered. If you back out (decide to get a refund), then your car goes to the next person in line in the reservation process. They have more orders than cars for the first year, so this system should work fine. The following year, when production ramps up, the dealers should be able to order cars for their inventory.
 
palmermd said:
According to the guys at the Nissan booth at the Tour of California, all deposits taken prior to signing a contract are fully refundable for any reason at any time. $99 is for the pre-reservation, they'll likely want more money for the full deposit with the details of what you want to order in the August reservation. If you test drive the car in October and you don't like it then you can just ask for all deposits to be returned.
Not necessarily. We do not know if the August reservation process will involve signing the contract. And regardless of speculation above, we do not know what will happen if a buyer refuses delivery. Maybe the dealer gets to keep the car; maybe Nissan keeps the car. We simply do not know. We do not know if any dealers will agree to a test-drive back-out clause. We don't even know if Nissan will permit dealers to accept such a clause. Dealers get to set the price (subject to negotiation with buyers) but is the purchase contract with the dealer or with Nissan? We do not know.

It's all speculation, and speculation is pointless and futile.

Perhaps the promised June "communication" from Nissan will clarify all this. Perhaps not. The only thing we really know is that the $99 is fully refundable. And it's reasonable to assume that if we buy the car, the $99 will be credited towards the purchase price. But the terms of the contract, or what we might demand be added to it, only Nissan knows (assuming they've even decided).

And it's a seller's market. We can decide not to buy, but if we do, someone else will happily buy the car, so Nissan could play hard-ball with the contract. Or they could let us back out at the last minute, knowing they'll still sell the car.

We just don't know.
 
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