Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

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Wet. Here we go again. The deniers are always going to deny. It is all they know. They do not give a sh!t if they are wrong because they wont be alive when our children are suffering from not doing something now about climate change. I would rather do something now than put my head in the sand and follow the few -1% of climate scientists horsesh!t science.

WetEV said:
RegGuheert said:
WetEV said:
The Arctic is off the charts hot, sea ice in both Arctic and Antarctic waters is at a record low for the date. Global sea ice is "About 6.9 standard deviations below the 1981-2010 mean."
What is your fear related to the loss of global sea ice?

Not directly, but through the effect on weather patterns from the loss of Arctic sea ice. Like the Arctic vortex recentering over Asia or North America, as it has this year.

RegGuheert said:
Are humans or any other species impacted by such a change?

Duh.

RegGuheert said:
Is there ANY evidence that this is related to the activity of man?

co2_800k.png


The burning of coal, natural gas, oil, wood, peat and the clearing of land has put a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere. About half is still there.

Unprecedented in the past 800,000 years.

Do you have any realistic doubt that humans have changed the CO2 level of the atmosphere?

Do you have any realistic doubt that changing the CO2 level will affect the climate?

WetEV said:
This brings up an amusing speculation. Suppose this not only continues, but gets worse. The Antarctic keeps shedding sea ice, then sheds a big hunk or two of ice shelf, and some of the ice sheets starts falling into the ocean. The Arctic maintains a low pressure, off the charts warm pattern all winter, melts fast in spring and is ice free next summer. Weather patterns worldwide are wonky and wild.

RegGuheert said:
Hahahahahaha!!

We will see who gets the last laugh.
 
why would you say Musk mis represented facts concerning the credits? I think the only issue here is why Tesla is selling them at such a discount. they are simply desperate for the money as they should be. Its an open market so guessing they get better than 50% every once in a while.

I will agree his answer was the "path of least resistance" but its not like we didn't all know that. The thought that Tesla would be selling an affordable car was, is and always be laughable. They are upscale and trying to move elsewhere would be a mistake. Keep the mystic. Its way more valuable that volume pricing. Besides the $45,000 car might be a niche, but its a HUGE one. Without the T3 announcement you seriously think we would have Audi, Mercedes, etc in the mix? FYI; expect more to pop up soon.
 
ZEV credits are awarded by CARB, a state agency. Relevant at the federal level, the focus of this thread, is the $7500 tax credit and CAFE compliance. Currently, apart from any CARB mandates, automakers plan on selling EVs to help them with the tightening CAFE overall mileage requirements. But if GM and others are successful in their efforts to lobby the incoming administration, then those requirements could be watered down, thus reducing the motivation to sell EVs in all states. Hence the concern now circulating among EV fans that it might end up being tougher to buy a Bolt in non-CARB states.
 
abasile said:
ZEV credits are awarded by CARB, a state agency. Relevant at the federal level, the focus of this thread, is the $7500 tax credit and CAFE compliance. Currently, apart from any CARB mandates, automakers plan on selling EVs to help them with the tightening CAFE overall mileage requirements. But if GM and others are successful in their efforts to lobby the incoming administration, then those requirements could be watered down, thus reducing the motivation to sell EVs in all states. Hence the concern now circulating among EV fans that it might end up being tougher to buy a Bolt in non-CARB states.

Plus, the very real chance that CARB authority outside California under EPA exemption might be reduced / eliminated.
 
LeftieBiker said:
My main, immediate fear is that the $7500 EV tax credit will be eliminated in all states, before next Summer.
Zero chance. Priority is to create jobs and eliminate regulations that strangle jobs like EPA CO2 regulations. Trump has stated he wants to be known for his environmentalism and high priority is clean air.
 
DanCar said:
LeftieBiker said:
My main, immediate fear is that the $7500 EV tax credit will be eliminated in all states, before next Summer.
Zero chance. Priority is to create jobs and eliminate regulations that strangle jobs like EPA CO2 regulations. Trump has stated he wants to be known for his environmentalism and high priority is clean air.

Uh huh. Care to place a modest wager? I'll bet you $50 that the subsidy gets killed before the Bolt is actually available for lease in New York. BTW, it would fall under the rubric of "eliminate regulations that strangle jobs" in a Republican administration. Even if you believe that Trump is going to somehow keep almost all of the campaign promises he has made, you have to realize that he has to give the Right something that is easy to deliver but will resonate with their worldview and reinforce their support of him. Eliminating government subsidies for those awful elitist electric cars would be both easy and cheap, and it would be hugely popular among truck/SUV driving white men.
 
LeftieBiker said:
DanCar said:
LeftieBiker said:
My main, immediate fear is that the $7500 EV tax credit will be eliminated in all states, before next Summer.
Zero chance. Priority is to create jobs and eliminate regulations that strangle jobs like EPA CO2 regulations. Trump has stated he wants to be known for his environmentalism and high priority is clean air.

Uh huh. Care to place a modest wager? I'll bet you $50 that the subsidy gets killed before the Bolt is actually available for lease in New York.
Sure
BTW, it would fall under the rubric of "eliminate regulations that strangle jobs" in a Republican administration. Even if you believe that Trump is going to somehow keep almost all of the campaign promises he has made, you have to realize that he has to give the Right something that is easy to deliver but will resonate with their worldview and reinforce their support of him.
He is definitely a maverick. He will be fighting/negotiating with the right, like everyone else, sooner or later. Reference the 60 minute interview were he said he said things to get elected. He has been quoted a few times where he said the war on drugs was very stupid and he would legalize them. A very leftist view.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Drugs.htm
Legalize drugs and use tax revenue to fund drug education. (Apr 2011)
Eliminating government subsidies for those awful elitist electric cars would be both easy and cheap, and it would be hugely popular among truck/SUV driving white men.
The rich like their tax cuts. I wouldn't be surprised if he increases it to $10K for 100 kWh battery.
 
I'll remind everyone again that just about every prediction made about Trump has turned out to be wrong. If the consensus is that he will squash all progress in EVs and renewable energy that's probably a very encouraging sign.
 
If you want to make an official bet, Dan, we can do that. I'll cheerfully pay $50 to get the $7500 credit, as long as I know I'm going to get a $50 consolation prize (or hopefully just pocket money, if I cave and buy a Leaf soon) if it gets killed.

Trump would have to be Nuts to start giving the Left what it wants next year. Not to say that he's entirely sane, but I don't see him as being crazy in a way that will have him championing environmental laws in defiance of the people who elected him, at the beginning of his first term.
 
Trumps 100 day plan is here: https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf
Pros for EVs:
* Fair competition with China:
* remove the 25% tariff that Tesla pays in China.
* China doesn't allow Tesla to participate in incentives.
* Mentions tax cuts a couple of times.
* Mentions pro environment, except for CO2.

Cons for EVs:
* Will cut price of energy. Which will probably lower the price of gas.

Neutral for EVs?:
* Mentions clean coal. I'm dubious of coal being clean. Dirty coal seems like a better description.

Here is a different version of 100 day plan:
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/an-america-first-energy-plan
 
Those are both campaign documents. Here is the short version of the 100 day plan:

______________________________________________________________________________________

Here is my 100-day action plan:

We’re going to rescind all the job-destroying Obama executive actions including the Climate Action Plan and the Waters of the U.S. rule.

We’re going to save the coal industry and other industries threatened by Hillary Clinton’s extremist agenda.

I’m going to ask Trans Canada to renew its permit application for the Keystone Pipeline.

We’re going to lift moratoriums on energy production in federal areas

We’re going to revoke policies that impose unwarranted restrictions on new drilling technologies. These technologies create millions of jobs with a smaller footprint than ever before.

We’re going to cancel the Paris Climate Agreement and stop all payments of U.S. tax dollars to U.N. global warming programs.

Any regulation that is outdated, unnecessary, bad for workers, or contrary to the national interest will be scrapped. We will also eliminate duplication, provide regulatory certainty, and trust local officials and local residents.

Any future regulation will go through a simple test: is this regulation good for the American worker? If it doesn’t pass this test, the rule will not be approved.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Let me know if you want to take that bet officially.
 
DanCar said:
LeftieBiker said:
... Let me know if you want to take that bet officially.
Yes.

Ok. I guess we just post both our real names here (I don't know if yours is your name or not) and agree that this is a real bet and that we will honor it. Do you want any more specific terms? Michael Cerkowski
 
LeftieBiker said:
DanCar said:
LeftieBiker said:
... Let me know if you want to take that bet officially.
Yes.

Ok. I guess we just post both our real names here (I don't know if yours is your name or not) and agree that this is a real bet and that we will honor it. Do you want any more specific terms? Michael Cerkowski
Nice to virtually meet you Mike. My name is Daniel Cardenas.
 
Just sayin' you guys could PM, that way your real names wouldn't be out there for everyone to see :)
Just click on each others name and the option for PM comes up.

Anyone who thinks Trump can't be looking at the large picture as well as small are fooling themselves. Not that Trump personally will probably look into eliminating such subsidies but his staff sure will, and sooner than later. IMO thats why who he picks as cabinet members is almost more important than who he is or what view he personally has......
I too believe the $7500 tax credit will go away sooner than later although from most of the views in this thread it would seem many are OK with that. I do think to myself though, I just wonder how many who don't care about the tax credit actually purchased their EV new(and were eligible for the credit and the credit helped them decide to go EV) and how many just scooped up a steal of a deal on a used Leaf and their purchase decision had nothing to do with the credit and everything to do with the very low price......my guess is most who don't care about the credit are of the latter ;)
If EVs take off(and I'm not totally sold they will in the pure EV forum, although I believe Hybrids will still strive) it will have more to do with the early pioneers who paid list price(or very near like me) to purchase their Leaf and maybe got the tax credit and not so much for those who got their used Leafs for pennies on the dollar at the expense of someone else or Nissans expense.
In my neck of the woods I see tons of Priuses but very very few Leafs or other pure EVs. I see a few Volts but thats about it, lots more larger trucks and large SUVs dominate our roads and many people's reaction to my EV is, what they have to burn coal to power the power plants, how clean is that...... :|
 
jjeff said:
If EVs take off(and I'm not totally sold they will in the pure EV forum, although I believe Hybrids will still strive) it will have more to do with the early pioneers who paid list price(or very near like me) to purchase their Leaf and maybe got the tax credit and not so much for those who got their used Leafs for pennies on the dollar at the expense of someone else or Nissans expense.
In my neck of the woods I see tons of Priuses but very very few Leafs or other pure EVs. I see a few Volts but thats about it, lots more larger trucks and large SUVs dominate our roads and many people's reaction to my EV is, what they have to burn coal to power the power plants, how clean is that...... :|
We've had the $7500 subsidy around for six years now and plugin vehicles are like 0.000000001% of the fleet. Good jahwb.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
jjeff said:
If EVs take off(and I'm not totally sold they will in the pure EV forum, although I believe Hybrids will still strive) it will have more to do with the early pioneers who paid list price(or very near like me) to purchase their Leaf and maybe got the tax credit and not so much for those who got their used Leafs for pennies on the dollar at the expense of someone else or Nissans expense.
In my neck of the woods I see tons of Priuses but very very few Leafs or other pure EVs. I see a few Volts but thats about it, lots more larger trucks and large SUVs dominate our roads and many people's reaction to my EV is, what they have to burn coal to power the power plants, how clean is that...... :|
We've had the $7500 subsidy around for six years now and plugin vehicles are like 0.000000001% of the fleet. Good jahwb.
True, which goes to prove even a $7500 credit isn't going to make someone who wasn't already thinking of going EV to go that route but when you think of how many EVs were available 6 years ago compared to how many are available now, and that number is growing by the year, I'd say it may have helped in some way.
I'm not sure how many people considering purchasing a $80k Tesla would make(or made) their decision on a lowly $7500 tax credit but I'm guessing it may have made quite a bit of difference for someone looking at a $35k Leaf(in my case it sure did)....now as to whether this credit is still needed, that may be up to debate but as more and more $60k+ larger PHEVs get made and sold, the credit may not make as much difference as to whether one goes that route or ICE only and one may also wonder if giving someone a tax credit for purchasing such a large vehicle is really warranted. I think back to was it the Bush years?? when the Republicans gave purchasers of large 1 ton pigs a tax break for purchasing just such a large vehicle. I remember several neighbors did just that, instead of purchasing their normal 3/4 ton vehicles to pick up groceries and drive the kids around they upsized to a 1 ton, and got a tax break to boot! They were laughing all the way to the bank, curiosity of the Republicans in charge :? wasn't it called something like the Hummer tax break??
Now I do understand that tax break was mainly meant for businesses(as most Republican tax breaks are) but I personally know plenty of regular folks who took advantage of it and getting a tax credit for purchasing a larger less fuel efficient vehicle than they might normally have purchased......
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
We've had the $7500 subsidy around for six years now and plugin vehicles are like 0.000000001% of the fleet. Good jahwb.

Might want to find the real number, rather than a truthiness made up number. Facts matter.

"It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. But that's not the case anymore. Facts matter not at all. Perception is everything." Stephen Colbert
 
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