Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Clearly you are overkilling with kids. Just checked graphs and saw -10C as "dead winter" where you live.

Children are totally safe in that temperature outside if appropriate clothes are used. Ask professional opinion.
Not to mention in a car where there is no wind and above freezing temperatures.

It is common mistake parents do but that doesn't mean that must continue.

Also recirculation is possible with AC. Should not fog up too easily.
30 miles with 11 bars is extremely bad result. Either super high speed (not ok below freezing temp)
or extremely slow (2 hours?).

arnis said:

Also recirculation is possible with AC. Should not fog up too easily.
30 miles with 11 bars is extremely bad result. Either super high speed (not ok below freezing temp)
or extremely slow (2 hours?).

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I've yet to get my A/C to kick in when it's cold outside when I have recirculation on, no matter the settings. Is there some way to force it to come on? It just runs the heat, but no A/C according to LeafSpy. If the temperatures are in the 60's, I can get the car to run heat and cool simultaneously, and usually not by choice.

arnis said:

Clearly you are overkilling with kids. Just checked graphs and saw -10C as "dead winter" where you live.

Children are totally safe in that temperature outside if appropriate clothes are used. Ask professional opinion.
Not to mention in a car where there is no wind and above freezing temperatures.

It is common mistake parents do but that doesn't mean that must continue.

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That it is a mistake to keep my kids comfortable instead of simply safe is your personal opinion. I don't appreciate the implication that I'm doing something wrong here. I don't need more than 25 miles most days, so I'm never pressed for range. Why am I need free to use some of that energy to keep my family comfortable?

arnis said:

Also recirculation is possible with AC. Should not fog up too easily.

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Thanks to another member here, I do have the heater kill switch installed. Without it, what you are describing is not possible on a stock 2012 Leaf. The car will always run the heater if the temperature is below 60F.

arnis said:

30 miles with 11 bars is extremely bad result. Either super high speed (not ok below freezing temp)
or extremely slow (2 hours?).

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30 miles includes a combination of highway driving and short trips (with cool down periods between them). The posted speed limit is 65MPH. I never drive faster than 70MPH. That's hardly "super high speed". And again, I don't need range, it simply uses more electricity to get where I am going. Please explain to me why that is "not ok"? I bought the car to drive it. That includes on the highway. Restricting myself to only side streets just to save a few kWh is not something I feel compelled to do.

I hear what you are saying, but again I don't appreciate the accusations of doing something wrong. The Leaf is far more efficient than any car I've previously owned, and I am driving it relatively conservatively to boot.

65mph on snow or ice or slush is no ok. US is not shining with safety on roads. Not sure it is even average.
Speed limit is for good weather, not bad weather (except dynamic signs which are not popular in US).

If you keep your kids (and yourself) always at "comfortable" you get used to that comfort which will bad
in many ways in the future. Especially for children. It is like pampering. But physical (immune system).
Offtopic anyway. I would recommend to read literature or consult with specialists - don't assume you're right
(especially if you are not professional in that area). Good parent is not the one who keeps their children
comfortable and give them candy all the time.

GetOffYourGas said:

Amped said:

Valdemar said:

Chances are you will miss out on the new battery bingo unless you start "work" on your pack soon. It took me 8 months and 11k miles to lose the 9th bar in SoCal that included the hottest months here, it'll likely take you longer in MA so you'll be cutting it close to 11/2017 when your capacity warranty expires.

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If it happens, it would be a welcome bonus. I bought a 4 year old nice car for cheap and the range I'm getting is more than enough for my 30 mile round trip commute. I also have charging options near work. So, no worries if it doesn't happen.

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My 11-bar 2012 Leaf has a hard time driving 30 miles in the dead of winter with the heat blasting. Living in MA, I assume your winters are similar to Syracuse. I have to run the heat because I have kids in car seats (i.e. heated seats are useless to them). If you don't need heat and/or can preheat the car while plugged in, your commute will be much easier. How "near work" are those charging options? Can you walk to your work and leave the car plugged in?

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Winters are the same here. I've been using heat, seat and steering heat as well as the radio and still have about 30 miles of range when I get home. I don't take the highway as that always kills the range.

Chargers are not close enough, for my liking, to walk. But, close enough to charge at lunch or after work. I've done that quite a bit in November. But, realized I only really saved like 10-15 dollars of my electric bill for the hours I sat. There's also a QC charger if I ever wanted to pay for it (which I don't).

I'd love to qualify a for a new battery before 11/15/17. But, if I don't, I still love the car and will be able to charge if the range drops low.

arnis said:

65mph on snow or ice or slush is no ok. US is not shining with safety on roads. Not sure it is even average.
Speed limit is for good weather, not bad weather (except dynamic signs which are not popular in US).

If you keep your kids (and yourself) always at "comfortable" you get used to that comfort which will bad
in many ways in the future. Especially for children. It is like pampering. But physical (immune system).
Offtopic anyway. I would recommend to read literature or consult with specialists - don't assume you're right
(especially if you are not professional in that area). Good parent is not the one who keeps their children
comfortable and give them candy all the time.

Click to expand...

I never said anything about road conditions. In Syracuse, we take care of the roads. 65MPH in the winter is perfectly safe most of the time. During a storm I slow down. The biggest danger is having the wrong tire (I.e. all seasons rather than proper snow tires).

The rest of your statements I'm not touching. That's way off topic anyway and had nothing to do with cars at all, let alone capacity/range of 2011/2012 Leaf's.

My only point here is that driving my car in a manner similar to any other car on the road, and therefore how someone picking up a used one for the first time might expect to, can easily yield only 30 miles of range in the winter.

Valdemar said:

peakay said:

Ah, good question. Coastal southern California. Doesn't get too hot here but we can start quick charging more.

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Took me about 7 months and 10,000 miles from February to October to get to 8 bars from where you're today, or close, but hotter inland LA area. I think you have a good chance to make it given there is more one year left, but QC as often as you can, the sooner you start the better, drive fast and hard to keep the pack warm.

Click to expand...

Thanks. It dropped to 9 bars a couple weeks ago but I haven't checked back on leafspy. based on this and a 1/8/2018 date, do you think i should be in good shape? We have about 31k miles on it at this time.

peakay said:

Valdemar said:

peakay said:

Ah, good question. Coastal southern California. Doesn't get too hot here but we can start quick charging more.

Click to expand...

Took me about 7 months and 10,000 miles from February to October to get to 8 bars from where you're today, or close, but hotter inland LA area. I think you have a good chance to make it given there is more one year left, but QC as often as you can, the sooner you start the better, drive fast and hard to keep the pack warm.

Click to expand...

Thanks. It dropped to 9 bars a couple weeks ago but I haven't checked back on leafspy. based on this and a 1/8/2018 date, do you think i should be in good shape? We have about 31k miles on it at this time.

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Probably but not guaranteed so I wouldn't just sit and wait, quick charge it often and drive hard, keep it fully charged and park in the sun as much as you can.

fbnella said:

Thanks for the tips. When I spoke to a dealer here in town, they told me that the car would need to show a record of a yearly battery check for it to qualify for warranty coverage. Is this true? It was purchased used and I've no idea if that was done, or needed. The carfax shows it being serviced but isn't specific.

Thanks again, for any insight.

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absolutely NOT.

No. Battery check is for users not manufacturer. Not doing oil change in ICE vehicle also does not void the warranty for the whole vehicle.
Only for parts that can be ruined due to insufficient service (oil change).

Is there any point to the battery check from the consumer's standpoint ? I cannot think of any.

SageBrush said:

Is there any point to the battery check from the consumer's standpoint ? I cannot think of any.

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It is required by the terms of battery warranty, so if not done timely Nissan may try to deny warranty work on your battery.

Valdemar said:

SageBrush said:

Is there any point to the battery check from the consumer's standpoint ? I cannot think of any.

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It is required by the terms of battery warranty, so if not done timely Nissan may try to deny warranty work on your battery.

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Reference, please

Addendum (my bolding) from the warranty booklet:

MAINTENANCE , DATA ACCESS, AND RECORDS

As a condition of this warranty, you are responsible for
properly using, maintaining and caring for your vehicle
as outlined in your OWNER’S MANUAL and your
NISSAN LEAF SERVICE & MAINTENANCE GUIDE,
and maintaining copies of all maintenance records &
receipts for review by Nissan. You are required to perform
annual EV Battery Usage Report at intervals of
12 months, 24 months, 36 months, 48 months,
60 months, 72 months, and 84 months. These EV
Battery Usage Reports can be performed by a Nissan
LEAF certified dealer or any qualified repair shop facility.
The 12 and 24 month EV Battery Usage Report will be
performed at no charge to the customer, provided the
work is done at a Nissan LEAF certified dealer. Any
damage or failure resulting from a failure to have these
required services performed, or that could have been
avoided had these services been performed, is not
covered under warranty.

This is no different than recommended scheduled maintenance for any car and the onus of proof is on Nissan to show that a battery check would have prevented premature battery aging. Good luck with that.

SageBrush said:

Any
damage or failure resulting from a failure to have these
required services performed, or that could have been
avoided had these services been performed, is not
covered under warranty.

This is no different than recommended scheduled maintenance for any car and the onus of proof is on Nissan to show that a battery check would have prevented premature battery aging. Good luck with that.

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Right, but it doesn't mean they won't try. You can take them to court and win, but it is a PITA.

Valdemar said:

SageBrush said:

Any
damage or failure resulting from a failure to have these
required services performed, or that could have been
avoided had these services been performed, is not
covered under warranty.

This is no different than recommended scheduled maintenance for any car and the onus of proof is on Nissan to show that a battery check would have prevented premature battery aging. Good luck with that.

Click to expand...

Right, but it doesn't mean they won't try. You can take them to court and win, but it is a PITA.

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That is about as likely as Toyota refusing warranty for rust because you changed your own oil, or me suing you for writing PITA. It *could* happen, but there is no reason to think either of us would. And while I reserve the right to sue you if write PITA again, if I were you I would not worry about it. So DaveInOly is right: the battery checks are not required to exercise the warranty.

Have there been ANY cases of Nissan refusing to honor the battery degradation warranty based on missing battery checks ? I'll bet a lot of money the answer is no if for no other reason that the exemption was written with battery DEFECT in mind, not premature degradation.

You asked if there was any point to the battery check from the consumer's standpoint, I responded with a suggestion that not doing the checks may complicate warranty repairs which I think is a reasonable concern given the wording in the warranty booklet. I don't remember reading anyone reporting Nissan refused warranty service on the grounds of missed usage reports, but the fact the capacity warranty wasn't even there in the booklet for 2011/2012 Leafs and the capacity warranty amendment didn't call for usage reports, considering typically battery warranty work is a replacement under capacity warranty for earlier cars makes it a moot point. One difference is for newer Leafs the capacity warranty is pretty much there in the same document where the usage report requirement is so Nissan may have more leverage from that point of view. I think you're right, but ultimately everyone should decide for themselves if additional $50-60/year is a reasonable price to pay for a peace of mind.

From my perspective, it's a very simple decision: if you want/think you will qualify for a (warranty settlement) free battery pack replacement, do the yearly battery checks, even if they cost you $$ (mine did not). If not, then don't bother; for that reason, I won't be doing another (I'll never get a second warranty pack). Why give them any reason to deny your claim?

SageBrush said:

Valdemar said:

SageBrush said:

Any
damage or failure resulting from a failure to have these
required services performed, or that could have been
avoided had these services been performed, is not
covered under warranty.

This is no different than recommended scheduled maintenance for any car and the onus of proof is on Nissan to show that a battery check would have prevented premature battery aging. Good luck with that.

Click to expand...

Right, but it doesn't mean they won't try. You can take them to court and win, but it is a PITA.

Click to expand...

That is about as likely as Toyota refusing warranty for rust because you changed your own oil, or me suing you for writing PITA. It *could* happen, but there is no reason to think either of us would. And while I reserve the right to sue you if write PITA again, if I were you I would not worry about it. So DaveInOly is right: the battery checks are not required to exercise the warranty.

Have there been ANY cases of Nissan refusing to honor the battery degradation warranty based on missing battery checks ? I'll bet a lot of money the answer is no if for no other reason that the exemption was written with battery DEFECT in mind, not premature degradation.

Click to expand...

Or another question is has the battery check ever found an issue which was then resolved AND by resolving it earlier rather than later additional damage/repair cost was avoided.

I skipped a couple battery checks and Nissan still replaced my back under warranty.

AFAIK until proven otherwise battery check is the same as looking at the dash.

QueenBee said:

I skipped a couple battery checks and Nissan still replaced my back under warranty.

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My understanding is that the Klee settlement applies to the 5 year/60K mile replacement warranty, and there is no mention in that settlement of any required battery checks. I don't know if others who have researched the settlement can confirm or deny this.

sub3marathonman said:

QueenBee said:

I skipped a couple battery checks and Nissan still replaced my back under warranty.

Click to expand...

My understanding is that the Klee settlement applies to the 5 year/60K mile replacement warranty, and there is no mention in that settlement of any required battery checks. I don't know if others who have researched the settlement can confirm or deny this.

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This is what I heard from a Nissan CS rep on the phone when I asked him some time back. This may well not apply to 2013 MY onward as the capacity warranty is now a part of the standard package.